I am trying to get all the parts required to go e85. I am just stuck on injectors and if i need a fuel rail. I have a fuel pump already, turbo back and a boost controller. What else do I need for a good E85 switch.
mmm yea, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. mmkay?
A stock fuel rail was intended for stock flowing injectors. If you use a stock fuel rail with aftermarket injectors you are going to increase the risk of a lean condition then BOOM! Comparing the stock fuel rail to an Aeromotive Fuel rail is like a coffee straw verses a pixie stix.
Interesting, since there are evos out there making 500 whp with E85 and stock rails. If someone could prove this I would be interersted, but I still dont see the need for them. IMO
PS No pissing matches.
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Evo Gangster
11.72@117.18
I'm going to go out on the limb here and assume he has a stock or stockish turbo.
Taking that into account, for his current setup, he will probably be "alright" with a stock fuel rail. They have proven themselves to flow pretty well for what they are. However, they are still WAY more restrictive than an aftermarket, which no one can deny. Should he ever want to go bigger, he should probably look into swapping it out as he will probably start running into issues.
I had posted on here before about a situation where the injectors can work faster than the fuel rail can keep up with depending on tuning. I called it injector pulse, as that is how I know it as. Basically, the injectors farther from the flow of the fuel would run out of fuel prior to fuel ever reaching them intermittently.
As I type this to you, I have both a stock and an aftermarket rail sitting in front of me and submit the following observations. First off, I direct your attention to the feed and return openings, and to the injector feed openings. Notice that th the feed/return are actually smaller than the injector feed, which I don't feel is very optimal. The aftermarket on, on the other hand is quite the opposite, as for one it allows the entire opening of the injector to see fuel and lacks any restrictions in the feed/return openings. Picture a drinking straw versus a garden hose.
Next, note the way the main rail sits in relation to the injector feed ports, you will notice that more than half of the reservoir sits in a manner where the fuel collects below the feed ports themselves. Just by looking at that, and given my limited knowledge of the physics involved with the flow/movement of all liquids, the liquid will naturally collect where the injectors will never get the chance to see it until the rail has a chance to fill itself again. The aftermarket fuel rail is designed so that the reservoir sits right on top of the injectors feed openings, and that almost 5/6 of the reservoir sits right on top of the injectors. In my mind, the injectors now have immediate access to all the reserve fuel they need in the eventuality they require more.
Just off these observations alone, and given that most people don't like detonation and it's aftereffects, I would consider a fuel rail as "cheap insurance" for your engine.
Now, with that being said, can the stock fuel rail get the job done? Probably. Will he have any issues? Probably not unless he tries to push his car to the absolute limit using the smallest setup possible, which I highly doubt is his goal.
Final note, the brand of aftermarket fuel rail really doesn't matter, as they are essentially designed the same. The only difference is some are significantly bigger than the others (the Magnus, for example which allows the use of 2000cc injectors).
Nice post WANTED. You're seeing the problem at large although you didn't specificly mention it..
The stock rail is designed to run gasoline. E85 itselt isn't the "problem" I see with using the stock rail. It's more a volume/supply issue. As I just stated, the stock rail is designed to fuel the stock 2.0L engine w/ gasoline making ~290bhp in stock tune. Sure it's capable of much more and has powered many cars making well in excess of that ammount.
I ask that you take a closer look at the situation than the cold fact "X car made X whp w/ the stock rail". Take a look a the fuel thats being used to produce that power. Might take a gander and see what size injectors are being used. Maybe even dig further and look at the injector pulsewidths during those pulls. Some simple math will show you that even a "stock or stockish" turbo car running E85 is going through a striking volume of fuel. You'll start to see what Lucas, WANTED, and I are getting at.
It's always a good thing when you can do the work to solve your own problems/questions rather than rely on someone else to "prove" them for you.
Nice post WANTED. You're seeing the problem at large although you didn't specificly mention it..
The stock rail is designed to run gasoline. E85 itselt isn't the "problem" I see with using the stock rail. It's more a volume/supply issue. As I just stated, the stock rail is designed to fuel the stock 2.0L engine w/ gasoline making ~290bhp in stock tune. Sure it's capable of much more and has powered many cars making well in excess of that ammount.
I ask that you take a closer look at the situation than the cold fact "X car made X whp w/ the stock rail". Take a look a the fuel thats being used to produce that power. Might take a gander and see what size injectors are being used. Maybe even dig further and look at the injector pulsewidths during those pulls. Some simple math will show you that even a "stock or stockish" turbo car running E85 is going through a striking volume of fuel. You'll start to see what Lucas, WANTED, and I are getting at.
It's always a good thing when you can do the work to solve your own problems/questions rather than rely on someone else to "prove" them for you.
Justin, Are you talking to me? I hope not.
My answer is for that car listed above. Hope your not telling me to look at IPWS. I run my car fine on stock rail with 1000s at about 70%. I do my own tests all the time. I was just giving an example of a car with high horsepower stock rail.
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Evo Gangster
11.72@117.18
Larely depends on the injector size. I know they've got some pretty good deals on the Aeromotive rail (which is a awesome rail). PM DynoDude on this forum and he'll square you away with a price.
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