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Old 01-05-2008, 03:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
Registered: Aug 2007
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Question SM class AutoX setup?

Hi All,

I'm running in a class locally called B Modified - basically open mods, 2.0l and above class. The turbo on our Evos bumps us over the 2.0l mark due to rules they have to allow for FI engined cars. I think this is most similar to the SCCA SM class so wondering how I can improve my setup in order to compete better.

At the moment I'm happy wiht my power mods - basically running the HKS cams, fuel pump, 02 housing and 3 inch full exhaust including downpipe. I have an RS so the boost hits very quick and hard, no complaints there.

Suspension wise, I've got KW V3 coilovers, pretty much all the Whiteline bits (steering precision, roll centre kit, bump steer kit etc.) and the whiteline rear sway.

The cars I'm up against, however, are fully stripped out Evos for the most part, running stroker kits, bigger turbos etc and, most importntly I think, full slick tires vs. the semislicks that I run.

What I'd like to know is what the widest tires are that we can run under the stock bodywork, with a little fender rolling etc. allowed. I'm running the RE55s in 18/35/235 width at the moment and think I could benefit alot from maxing out my tires and grip.

So how wide can we go and what offsets, etc? Also open to other suggestions as far as alignment etc. - I currently run -2.5 camber at the front, -1.3 at the rear and 0.05 degrees of toe out all around and I know I could go a little more aggressive in that department if I get the KW camber plates.

Once having sorted the tires out, I'm considering stripping out the interior (lightnes is free after all) and perhaps taking off the rear wing since it doesn't really do much at AutoX speeds anyways.

Feedback/suggestions appreciated! I'm up against a very serious class of cars here and want to raise my game!
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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1) You should NOT be in B-Mod if this is SCCA. You should be in SM and should not be competing with any stripped out cars.

2) Widest you can go on stock bodywork is 285/30-18 on either 18X9.5 or 18X10 (maybe 18X10.5, but that's rare). I run 285/30-18 Kumho V710s on 18X9.5 Enkei NT01+M rims and finished 10th at SCCA Nationals. My offset on those rims is +40, but I have a 25mm spacer up front, so the effective offset is +15. This gives me a lot of extra track width up front, but it required heavy fender rolling and a lot of camber (-3.0).





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Old 01-08-2008, 12:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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On point 1 - sorry for the confusion - I actually live and compete in Dubai where we sort of do our own thing for AutoX classification; to sum it up the cars are classed by engine size and whether they are modified or unmodified and that's it. That's why, since I'm technically modified, I'm running against very nighly modified cars - we're all lumped into one huge modified category. Definitely nothing near as precise as the SCCA regs are but what to do - we only have 30 or so regular competitors and as it is we're already stuck with less than 10 people per class!

Anyhow, thanks for the advice on the 285s Warrtalon. Since I had an small accident lately (not my fault of course, which means the other guy gets to pay!) which damaged 3 of my rims I've been thinking of taking the opportuity to upgrade and I'm hoping that jumping from 235mm wide semislicks to 285mm semis would make a noticeable difference in terms of available grip - at least enough to partly justify the spend on new rims and rubber!

I know your full slicks would run rings around the Bridgestone RE55s I'm running but although I'm a competitive person I'm just not competitive enough to force myself to change tires at the track at 7:30am before each race

After doing a little searching, it seems that 5Zigen FNC01RCs in 18x9.5 should fit 265/35/18 or 285/35/18 rubber so I'm leaning that way - apparently no spacers needed.

Curious qhat your thoughts are on alignment - think toe out all around is a good idea? I like it on the track but it sort of makes the handling a bit spooky on the street...
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Not competitive enough to swap wheels for each event? Come now, if you're going to compete at all, that is a very small thing to do. I'm as lazy as it gets, but I still don't have a problem changing wheels. It only takes 15-20 mins, and it's very easy using a nice battery-powered drill - easy as pie. If you would rather do it the night before, you could just drive to the event on your race rims/tires. The short distance and normal driving won't hurt them at all as long as it's not raining (don't think you have too much of that in Dubai). Also, you won't want to drive daily on your race setup, because to have tires that large, you will need to have your camber set very aggressively. You don't want to drive daily like that - it will kill the tires much more quickly. I change alignment along with my tires/rims for races, and then I change back for street driving. I have both front camber settings marked on my camber plates, and then I just have to do the front toe adjustment on the tie rods. You may not want to do that, but then that means you won't want to do -3.0 camber. You'll want to do -2 to -2.5 so that it will be ok for combined daily/autox use. This will mean you'll also probably want to go with the 265/35-18s. 285/35s won't fit right (only 285/30), and they require heavy camber along with heavy fender rolling.

You may be able to fit the 265/35-18s on 18X9.5 FN0C1Rs, but it depends on the exact alignment, how much you're lowered, and the offset. You say you don't need a spacer, but you can only know that based off the offset of the rim. A wheel/tire that large will most likely need a spacer to clear the suspension.

No, I don't think toe-out all-around is a good idea. Why do you? I do slight toe-out up front and 0 toe in the rear to help with turn-in. It's not based on my opinion - my whole suspension setup was designed by a pro Evo driver here in the States.





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Old 01-11-2008, 08:17 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Yes, the lack of a wilingness to change tires is largely a function of my own laziness and the fact that it can get pretty hot here, which makes things uncomfortable when you're jacking the car up etc. If I were going to go through the tire changing process I'd only do it in order to run full slick tires, such as Hoosier A6s, Pirellis or Yoko A005s etc. - which would mean investing in 2 sets of rims and tires, which I'm a little financially-unable to do just now.

As you have mentioned I tend to run a compromized setup for street and track - the lack of rain here means that I can run semislick tires as a daily tire and, with my camber set at -2.5 up front and -1.3 in the rear I haven't really had any problems with wear considering the semis. Running 265s as you suggest might indee work well with my routine - do you think I'd notice the extra grip between 265s and my current 235s? If so then that might be enough for me for now.

The toe out idea came from a local magazine in which they built an EVO IX with the aim of decerasing lap times by adding handling and not horsepower...in fact it was the same guys who I bought my KWs from...www.mstorque.com(Project EVO IX). Experienced trackers so not a bad place to start for setup advice, I thought.

I decided to try their setup out for awhile, just curious to hear your comments as I know you've also had your suspension professionally set up and you seem to compete in similar events to me - daily drive + trackdays + autoX.

I was purposely experimenting with running the car very tailhappy for the sake of experience - my whiteline HD rear sway/stock front sway, combined with the toe out all around, combined with 34psi front/33psi rear hot tire pressures, make it turn in and rotate like an animal but at the expense of corner exit stability under hard acceleration. Good/tolerable for Autox, very good on short trackday circuits I find but a little uncomfortable for long, fast, high speed sweepers or for fast road use I find.

I'm always subtly changing my setup, so I think I'll take your advice and try running zero rear toe, or even a little negative rear toe, and see what happens.

I greatly appreciate your feedback, Warrtalon, so thanks.
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Just remember that minor differences in toe make a huge difference when going from auto-x to track. I think we are talking about auto-x here based off your first post, so don't confuse what you saw in that magazine for LAP TIMES (track use) vs auto-x times. However, there's nothing wrong with trying a certain setup then changing it the next time out to see what you prefer.

Yes, I think 265s will make a huge difference vs 235s.





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