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Bolt-On Power Mods Intake, exhaust, intake manifold, ignition, fuel system, cooling, etc.

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Old 03-27-2007, 05:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Good upgrade path?

Alright so currently I have:
Hallman Pro MBC set to ~20psi
JDM MR BOV

...so basically that is not a whole lot...

Soon I plan on having
TBE probably Megan Racing, but I am probably going to go with a Perrin high flow cat
272 Cams I am thinking HKS
Dynoflash Mail-in Tune

...still not much....

Now after I get those parts I will have a little bit of money to play with and am just wondering where I should go from here, and I want to make sure what I have chosen are good choices

The set of cams that I am looking at come with cam gears so I will have those anyway...
I will also be chaning the timing belt, and head studs at the same time...and was wondering about conrod bolts, and balance belt if those should be done as well?
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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What do you mean the HKS cams come with cam gears? Are you saying you're getting them used from someone? I would avoid that and get a brand new set of cams. You never know what has happened to those cams while in someone else's head. So, if you get brand new cams, don't worry about cam gears (not needed), and just get a set of GSC or Comp cams for about $450-475.

Megan TBE is fine. It has a resonated test pipe, so you probably don't need to worry about a hi-flow cat. If you still want an HFC, then I recommend the Random Tech or Ultimate Racing, not Perrin.

It's a pretty good idea to do the timing belt, head studs, etc., since you have an older 03. Also, the rod bolts are actually a pretty good idea to help reduce the possibility of spinning a bearing in the future.

The rest of your mods are good. You are just missing a Walbo fuel pump, so be sure to add that. As for additional, useful mods, I would add a BR LICP, SS O2 housing, ported/coated stock exhaust manifold, and ported/coated 10.5 hotside for your 03 turbo.





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Old 03-27-2007, 08:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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are cam gears absoultley required with longer duration cams?
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Yeah, I already have the Walbro 255lph fuel pump, I just forgot to include that...
But yeah that sounds good, I had never really looked at those cams before they are about $300 less than the HKS ones
As far as the cams including cam gears, it was some package that I had seen on an evo site. But I find the Comp cams more apealing. And everything else is well guided, thanks a lot wasn't totally sure where to go after that.
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Comp and GSC are only about $100 less than HKS. $450-475 vs $550-575. maybe you were talking about the HKS cams + gears for $750-800? Don't pay for that - you definitely don't want HKS cam gears.

Boostinpsi, cam gears are never required. However, they are more useful with more aggressive cams so that you can dial in the cam timing for the optimum powerband. They don't create power as much as they move power around. Certain settings can create more peak WHP at the expense of torque and spool.





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Old 03-27-2007, 10:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
... was wondering about conrod bolts, and balance belt if those should be done as well?
Are you pulling the motor? That's the only way I can see getting into that kind of labor.

In regards to requiring cam gears; It really depends on the cam and if you want every last horsepower. This is some interesting stuff to keep in mind too;
"Although HKS cams do degree in friendly, they are not always "deadnuts" and zeroed right out of their boxes to YOUR motor. EVERY motor we have built needed some amount of degreeing to make PERFECT phase between crank and cams. Lots of factors involved here folks such as the amount of material shaved off the head, headgasket thickness, block deck height to the crank centerline, cam profile production tolerances, and variances in valvetrain geometry all affect phasing. Remember, we're talking about a vast majority of the parts within a motor are cast pieces. Nothing is perfect. Nothing is consistent."

"Now, having good consistency in cam specs from one cam to the next is most important and HKS is always on their game. Crower's cams were a close second in grind tolerance...Web's was at the bottom of the barrel. What a surprise."
http://www.ffwdconnection.com/cams.shtml



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Old 03-27-2007, 11:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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I like the price of those cams, are there any real differences between "brands" or not really? the Comps and GSC cams look good too

I just don't want anything to break or not work right, so I suppose if that means pulling the engine...

I was probably going to end up replacing my lifters too, since mine seem to be ticking

I was also wondering if new valve springs would be a good idea?

So for the first set of upgrades I would have:
MBC at ~21psi
TBE
MR BOV
Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
Lower IC Piping
O2 Housing
272 Cams

and then soon would follow:
Exhaust Manifold and
10.5 hotside

so I don't know the exact amount of power that would give me, but if it would be the amount(or close to) that would require me to replace the conrods(i am guessing they are only so good for a certain amount) I would just do it now...personally I would rather not have to replace the balance belt, but if the engine is out why not I suppose

Last edited by chriseacrett; 03-27-2007 at 11:57 PM. Reason: forgot stuff
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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We can go to 500-550whp before needing to touch anything in the engine. I don't know what got you thinking about the conrod bolts. I thought it was because you had seen examples spun rod bearings, but that doesn't seem to be the case. You won't be anywhere near the limits of the motor with these mods - this is all very basic stuff, especially on pump gas and 21psi.

HKS, GSC, and Comp all perform about the same - the HKS ones just cost more due to the name.

Valve springs and retainers are not needed, but you can get them if you want.





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Old 03-28-2007, 10:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Then I will hold off on the conrod bolts, and probably will wait on the balance belt too.
I don't aticipate on having 500-550whp, I am trying to get around 400-450whp by the end of the summer.

Warrtalon, earlier you mentioned getting a ported/coated stock exhaust manifold, is that recommended over an aftermarket tubular manifold?
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
I like the price of those cams...
ffwdconnection doesn't have cams for us, but they will grind us some if we come up with 10-12 sets.

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Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
are there any real differences between "brands" or not really? the Comps and GSC cams look good too
Any differences between reliable brands that copy the HKS' will be minor (GSC'S/Buddy Club). Comp cams are different with more lift.

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Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
I just don't want anything to break or not work right, so I suppose if that means pulling the engine...
At the 400 range, you shouldn't break anything, but anything can happen. If and when you pull the motor just remove the balace shafts and rebuild.

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Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
I was probably going to end up replacing my lifters too, since mine seem to be ticking
The ticking is just part of a 4g63. When you install the cams, just bleed the lifters really good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
I was also wondering if new valve springs would be a good idea?
If you're reving high, or go with a cam with high lift, you will need them.

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a ported/coated stock exhaust manifold, is that recommended over an aftermarket tubular manifold?
If your sticking with the stock turbo, stick with the stock manifold.



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Old 03-28-2007, 11:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
I am trying to get around 400-450whp by the end of the summer.
You will need an aftermarket turbo to achieve those numbers in addition to a list of other supporting mods. With the currently planned mods, we're talking 340-350whp MAYBE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriseacrett View Post
Warrtalon, earlier you mentioned getting a ported/coated stock exhaust manifold, is that recommended over an aftermarket tubular manifold?
Yes, that's why I mentioned it and didn't mention a tubular.





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Old 03-28-2007, 06:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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what turbo would get you to 400 with room to expand up to 600-700 whp in the very far off future?
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I will also be chaning the timing belt, and head studs at the same time...and was wondering about conrod bolts, and balance belt if those should be done as well?
As someone stated earlier, conrod bolts are a little bit of overkill. To change them, you have to completely remove the pistons and have the new bolts pressed in. Yes, you have to remove the head anyway, so if you want to do it just to be sure, more power to you. I wouldn't, as your stock bottom end should be able to handle the mods your throwing at it.

Balance shaft belt, absolutely. If you plan on keeping your balance shafts, then yes change it with new one as well, either oem or higher strength. The last thing you want is for that belt to snap and cause your timing belt to jump. Realistically, you should always be changing it at the same time as your timing belt.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Deleted. Rethought my answer.
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Old 03-28-2007, 07:43 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostinpsi View Post
what turbo would get you to 400 with room to expand up to 600-700 whp in the very far off future?
That's a pretty huge range of power. With a GT35R, you could make 400-450whp on pump gas then 600whp on C16. For 700whp, you'd have to go with at least a PT-67 (GT37R) and maybe a GT40 or GT42. Those would also make 400+ on pump gas, but they would be extremely laggy.





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