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Bolt-On Power Mods Intake, exhaust, intake manifold, ignition, fuel system, cooling, etc.

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Old 04-11-2007, 04:49 PM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by JohnEB View Post
Yeah I have looked into quite a few and your right, A progressive system seems to be the way to go. The aquamist may be just a bit more but I like how "complete" the kit is and how reliable it has been so far for alot of people.

I'm not a big fan of anything that uses water, as water puts out fire, internal combustion engine, you get the idea.

You will make more power with pure alcohol, if you go to the track and talk to the big dog domestic guys they don't use water.

Alky is used for detonation suppression, and it will cool your intake charge. I've seen some cars at the track that use don't use intercoolers since the meth alchohol cools down the intake charge, it will burn hotter, but as long as you check your oil and change as needed it won't
cause any more wear and tear that wouldn't be expected from doubling the factory hp.

I don't really understand why the water mix kits have gotten more popular, from what I've seen they don't make as much power, even if the manufacturer say 50/50 makes the most power. If that was the case most pro am cars wouldn't be using pure methanol kits. Of course the people that do buy them and put them on their cars are going to say there are great, kinda like the suspension thing above.

I hope I'm not coming off as a dick, I am just trying to be informative as it seems a lot of misinformation about water inj/meth kits has been floating around.

I'm not a expert on alcohol injection, I paid to have mine setup and tuned, but all the tuners and shops that I have talked to recommend the pure alky kits, and I look at what they have on their shop cars, not what overstock they are trying to pawn off.

The aquamist isn't specifically tailored to the evo, as it is a universal kit.
The alkycontrol kit comes with oem fit parts for the evo, and is setup specifically for the evo, and I believe the snow kit is as well.

The evo 9 alkycontrol kit with a 3 bar sensor isn't much cheaper if any than the aquamist kit, I can't really seeing it being any more "complete" as it has everything you need with the kit besides a guy with a laptop and tactrix cable to pull some fuel out of your tune to hit a 10.8afr
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Old 04-11-2007, 05:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
 
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Just because it's named Aquamist, does that mean he has to use water? I thought it was up to the user to choose the fluid used. You can normally run water, meth, alky, or any combination of meth-water/alky-water in most kits. It would make no sense to get a kit that requires a mix. Pure meth or pure alcohol makes the most power.





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Old 04-11-2007, 07:14 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Aquamist recommended using water or a water/alky mist, when I contacted them as I was checking out all the kits available. The guy I talked to on the phone said the alky was hard on the seals and using pure alky might cause it to leak at some point, which is not something I would recommend leaking in a car.

Last edited by superflyjmysnk; 04-11-2007 at 07:14 PM. Reason: really bad grammar.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:16 PM   #34 (permalink)
 
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I could be wrong, but I think that's the same thing they all say. 100% meth and/or alky is definitely tougher on the internals than water or a mix.





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Old 04-11-2007, 07:31 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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I should have clarified, the seals on the kit itself.

Julio from alkycontrol was pretty upfront about his kit not being 100% safe, he said that running alky all the time would shorten the lifespan of the engine, and if it wasn't properly setup, tested, and tuned it would blow the motor in a very miniscule amount of time.

His no bs sales technique is the reason I decided on that particular kit, as it seemed some of the other alky/water kit manufacturers told me that 50/50 would make the most power and the kits where 100% safe and most had multiple "failsafes". It ifs built not to fail you don't really need multiple failsafes.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superflyjmysnk View Post
I should have clarified, the seals on the kit itself.

Julio from alkycontrol was pretty upfront about his kit not being 100% safe, he said that running alky all the time would shorten the lifespan of the engine, and if it wasn't properly setup, tested, and tuned it would blow the motor in a very miniscule amount of time.

His no bs sales technique is the reason I decided on that particular kit, as it seemed some of the other alky/water kit manufacturers told me that 50/50 would make the most power and the kits where 100% safe and most had multiple "failsafes". It ifs built not to fail you don't really need multiple failsafes.
Well, that's not good. Running 100% alky does not shorten the engine's life. In fact, it cleanses the internals, which is a positive thing. The only way it would shorten the lifespan of the engine is if the kit fails, and you blow the motor running 28psi @ 14:1 AFRs on pump without alky.

I completely disagree about not needing failsafes. How can a kit be made not to fail? There's always the possibility of mechanical parts failing - it happens all the time even on the most well-developed parts. Failsafes are very important. My SMC kit does NOT have one, therefore, I have to have the whole thing setup to survive a pump failure. I do that by using a smaller nozzle, ramping up the alky spray late and gradually with full spray only at peak boost, my AFRs are not aggressive, and my timing is not aggressive. I only have it set to kill mode on my drag tune, but my daily/auto-x/circuit tunes are conservative.





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Old 04-11-2007, 07:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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The kit I have has a failsafe, the led goes red if the meth stops flowing. Other than that as long as my wideband says 10.8-11 I'm good, and there is a low alky light.

I don't remember which manufacturer I was talking to, but they where telling me about all the failsafes the kit had, yet there was no way to test the kit unless you where under boost,.

When I was chatting with the aquamist fellow he gave me several examples of how the kit could fail, including seals not holding up to pure alcohol, but then told me it was 100% safe.

As running alky runs pretty warm, the heat is going to have a effect on the engine, usually more heat=more wear and tear. As far as cleansing the engine, clean internals break just as easy as gunky ones.
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
 
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But the alky suppresses that heat with the supercooling effect of the evaporation of the atomized alky spray. It's not necessarily hotter than running lower boost without alky. In some cases, it's cooler. No, clean internals do not break just as easily as dirty ones. Why would you say that?

A light to say the alky stopped flowing is not a failsafe. I have the same lights and a wideband like you, but those are just indicators, and by then, the motor could already be blown. Kits with failsafes cut the boost in the event of a failure or stoppage.





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Old 04-11-2007, 08:48 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
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I mentioned the clean internals , because you put it right after trying to negate that alky kits effect engine life. Most of the people I know who run alky don't change their oil every 3k miles, they change it sooner at it tends to break down faster with alky use from temp and blowby. I don't know about you, but if my oil breaks down/lose viscosity sooner from using alky I'm going to assume that there is bit more heat and blowby than not using alky.

I guess "failsafe" is a term that falls victim to context, the failsafes I was described did not cut boost but where indicators of some type of failure.

I'm not trying to promote one kit over another, but what some manufacturers claim is bs, as far as saying a 50/50 mix will make more power. This is a quote directly from one of the kits websites faq. On the phone they said 50/50 is will make the most power.

"10. What is the maximum alcohol/ water ratio I should use?
No more than 50%, otherwise you will increase the cylinder temperature rather than reducing it. Beyond that ratio, onset of detonation is more likely. Methanol freezes at -96 deg. C, 50% mixture will stop the mixture from freezing at around -40 deg.C.

11. How do I store 99.8% pure Methanol ?
Methanol is highly flammable, store it in a well ventilated place. It is better to dilute it with 50% water immediately before storing it."

I'm not going to turn this into a "my kit is better than yours", When I researched kits I remained fairly objective as I'm not faithful to brands or vendors. I just wanted to make sure the orig. poster had a little more info on alky kits before he plops down his dough.
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Old 04-12-2007, 04:35 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superflyjmysnk View Post
I'm not a big fan of anything that uses water, as water puts out fire, internal combustion engine, you get the idea.

You will make more power with pure alcohol, if you go to the track and talk to the big dog domestic guys they don't use water.

Alky is used for detonation suppression, and it will cool your intake charge. I've seen some cars at the track that use don't use intercoolers since the meth alchohol cools down the intake charge, it will burn hotter, but as long as you check your oil and change as needed it won't
cause any more wear and tear that wouldn't be expected from doubling the factory hp.

I don't really understand why the water mix kits have gotten more popular, from what I've seen they don't make as much power, even if the manufacturer say 50/50 makes the most power. If that was the case most pro am cars wouldn't be using pure methanol kits. Of course the people that do buy them and put them on their cars are going to say there are great, kinda like the suspension thing above.

I hope I'm not coming off as a dick, I am just trying to be informative as it seems a lot of misinformation about water inj/meth kits has been floating around.

I'm not a expert on alcohol injection, I paid to have mine setup and tuned, but all the tuners and shops that I have talked to recommend the pure alky kits, and I look at what they have on their shop cars, not what overstock they are trying to pawn off.

The aquamist isn't specifically tailored to the evo, as it is a universal kit.
The alkycontrol kit comes with oem fit parts for the evo, and is setup specifically for the evo, and I believe the snow kit is as well.

The evo 9 alkycontrol kit with a 3 bar sensor isn't much cheaper if any than the aquamist kit, I can't really seeing it being any more "complete" as it has everything you need with the kit besides a guy with a laptop and tactrix cable to pull some fuel out of your tune to hit a 10.8afr

Im not going to run water injection. I am running 50/50 mix of methanol/water. Thats why I put meth/alky kit and not water injection, I am trying to be more carefull about what I put because then people don't understand what I am saying and this happens.
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Old 04-12-2007, 06:06 AM   #41 (permalink)
 
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I understand what you where saying, I just wanted to make sure you where aware that you will make more power with 100% alky, with the same amount of liability as a 50/50 mix.
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Old 04-12-2007, 06:16 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I understand what you where saying, I just wanted to make sure you where aware that you will make more power with 100% alky, with the same amount of liability as a 50/50 mix.
Liability or reliable? The only thing I worry about with running 100% meth or alky is that every company I have talked to (Aquamist, SMC, ect) says it is hard on the pump and seals. Thanks for the input though.
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Old 04-12-2007, 06:45 AM   #43 (permalink)
 
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Thats kinda what I was getting at, its cheaper to build the kit not to withstand pure alcohol, but there are seals and pumps that are made to hold up to alky. There is really no increase in reliability from using 50/50 if the kit is made of anticorrosive seals/pump.
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Old 04-16-2007, 08:41 PM   #44 (permalink)
 
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I am running 1000's on E-85 and my injectors are pushing close to 100% duty cycle with no issues.

Keith

Good for you. I'm running on a lower duty cycle at the moment on 1000's and 91 oct and am having issues.
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Old 04-18-2007, 05:06 PM   #45 (permalink)
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