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Old 07-10-2006, 09:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Clutch time part two (some deciding factors)...

It's getting down to a couple of clutches...
In everything I've read, learned, and been lied to about clutches; I've come to the decision that there isn't a perfect clutch out there for me. It's a trade off of cost, longevity, and wear and tear on the driveline (pedal pressure/clamp load). So I have a question about torque ratings;
How high should a clutch's torque rating be? If someone is putting down about 350lbs. of torque, is it better to go with a clutch rated at 400lbs or go for the gusto and 650lbs. torque rated clutch?



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Old 07-10-2006, 09:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Larry, 2 things:

1) Man, you hit the nail on the head. There really is no perfect clutch for you, and I have this same dilemma whenever someone asks me for an affordable clutch recommendation. I simply don't like nor recommend most of the clutches under $1k, but how many people can afford a $1500 Twin disk and then another chunk of change for the install?

2) This is tricky. I can't speak for ACT or any other manufacturer, but I have a direct line to the Exedy engineer who consults the Executive who provides me with clutches, and he has told me that they post TQ ratings that are half of the actual capability of the clutch just to be safe. For instance, my clutch is rated to 420 flywheel tq or so, but it can really hold up to 800 flywheel torque. They just prefer to underrate them and never disappoint anyone. I remember my basic ACT HDSS being rated at 497lb/ft, and I assume that is to the flywheel. I would think you don't need a crazy tq capacity clutch unless you are frequently doing hard launches.





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Old 07-10-2006, 11:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
I would think you don't need a crazy tq capacity clutch unless you are frequently doing hard launches.
With the right clutch I'll start.
The two front runners;
Exedy Stage 2; (is this the same one your running?) rated at 400+lbs. of torque, 3010 lbs. clamp load, four puck(?), cerametallic friction surface, and sprung hub.
... and;
ACT's MB7-HDG6; rated at 650 lbs. of torque, 2900 lbs. clamping force (I think ), six puck, ceramic friction surface, and sprung hub.



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Old 07-11-2006, 07:44 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Yes, I have the stage 2 4-puck, and I love it for racing. I can shift like never before. Here's an example:

http://bagelbitez.com/dcevoclub/Warrtalon/12.30.mpg

I never could shift like that on my stocker or with the ACT.





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Old 07-11-2006, 03:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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larry...get the exedy twin!

T
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheCloser
larry...get the exedy twin!

T
My ex-neighbor came by and I told him about some of my clutch choices. Then I told him the cost of the Exedy. He almost burst out laughing. Now keep in mind he has a full tubular dragster, hold records drag racing turbo VW's, and all that. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to parts and performance. You know what he told me;
"A clutch is a clutch." "Eveybody is using the the same stuff, the same materials, the same designs." "There's no reason a clutch costs $1000." "It's torque rating that is important." "Get more than you need and just slip it."
This is coming from a guy who has a way out real multi plate clutch with springs and fingers I've never seen before. I know cause I've seen it right next to the huge slicks that used to be in his garage.
Exedy twin plate is out for me.



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Old 07-11-2006, 08:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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I respect his opinion, but really, that is by no means true on the clutches available for the Evo. Hell, you can get that Exedy Twin for $1300 from NoLimitMotorsports, and it includes the lightweight flywheel. If you get a CARBON Twin from Tilton or Exedy, they cost $3000!! Some people even use TRIPLE carbons on their Evos with big power. I'm sure that guy knows dragsters, but he doesn't necessarily know Evos and relative clutch prices. The materials in an Exedy are by no means the same as an ACT...there's organic, cerametallic, carbon plus puck-style vs normal vs sprung and unsprung. So many different make-ups...





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Old 07-11-2006, 09:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Anyways, back to my situation...
Clayton,
What flywheel are you using on that Stage two? I was thinking about ACT's streetlight. I'm not that conserned about running the lightest one, but one that has some meat to it, chrome-moly, and will hold up to a puck disk.
They should bolt up together right, since Exedy supplies ACT with the pressure plates?



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Old 07-12-2006, 04:44 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Actually, it comes with its own Exedy chromoly flywheel. Most Exedy clutch prices INCLUDE the flywheel. The Stage 2 is $950 shipped from Total D for the 3010lb PP, chromoly flywheel, TOB, 4-puck disk, and alignment tool. I would just get the Exedy flywheel to go with the Exedy clutch.





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Old 07-12-2006, 10:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolarry
My ex-neighbor came by and I told him about some of my clutch choices. Then I told him the cost of the Exedy. He almost burst out laughing. Now keep in mind he has a full tubular dragster, hold records drag racing turbo VW's, and all that. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to parts and performance. You know what he told me;
"A clutch is a clutch." "Eveybody is using the the same stuff, the same materials, the same designs." "There's no reason a clutch costs $1000." "It's torque rating that is important." "Get more than you need and just slip it."
This is coming from a guy who has a way out real multi plate clutch with springs and fingers I've never seen before. I know cause I've seen it right next to the huge slicks that used to be in his garage.
Exedy twin plate is out for me.

Tell him that a tire is a tire, and he shouldn't be spending all that money on drag slicks. You can hook him up with some 195/60/15 all seasons for real cheap!

Ask him for the source that makes his drag racing clutch, call them up and ask them to make you a tripple plate semi metalic street clutch for under $1000. After they quite laughing at you (if they ever stop laghing that is) turn to him and strait up tell him that he is full of $hit.

Keith
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourdoor
Tell him that a tire is a tire, and he shouldn't be spending all that money on drag slicks. You can hook him up with some 195/60/15 all seasons for real cheap!

Ask him for the source that makes his drag racing clutch, call them up and ask them to make you a tripple plate semi metalic street clutch for under $1000. After they quite laughing at you (if they ever stop laghing that is) turn to him and strait up tell him that he is full of $hit.

Keith

He was refering to the clutches I was looking at and my torque requirements.



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Old 07-23-2006, 01:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Get the twin larry, stop being cheap.
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Old 09-18-2006, 05:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Larry, take a look into a Quarter Master twin disc that Devo Tuning sells, ACT clutches drags, Exedy twins break T-cases. This clutch has a feather light pedal feel and replace that dumb pull design. They give you a hydrolic TOB that pushes instead. You don't have to worry about clips popping off. They cost 1650 and comes with everything you need to install.

Last edited by turbolarry; 09-18-2006 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Oooo... I saw that Quatermaster set up last year at SEMA. Very nice.
However, it's out of the price range and the ACT just went in. In fact the tranny gave up this afternoon and decided to slide into place.



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Old 12-05-2006, 01:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheCloser View Post
larry...get the exedy twin!

T
Good advice. "Spanking" a WRX at a traffic light put paid to old OEM clutch three days later. Based on user reviews I went with an Exedy twin-plate cerametallic clutch/flywheel kit for my Evo 6 RS2.
(Exedy twin has survived daily hard use in a modified Evo, on Grenada's hills for over THREE years without failing!)

Don't gripe about cost... You have no idea... and NOTHING to complain about.
Try a 6.3:1 rate of exchange + 49.5% Duty & sales tax. A kit costs $15k over here (Trinidad.) Want to swap parts cost? BTW much less expensive than "Carbon/Carbon."

Exedy twin cerametallic Pros...
Reliable and perfect for long term daily use. (Less "user" stress / no "repeat" installation costs.)
"Feathering" the clutch pedal is almost as smooth as stock.
No "light switch... on-off feel" like an HKS (tried an Evo with that too. It's a bitch to drive!)
During real world driving, "feel" is perfect... Starting off uphill... In traffic jams... etc. etc.
Reliable!...RELIABLE!... in spite of CONSTANT HARD LAUNCHING DAILY!

Exedy twin cerametallic Cons...
Pedal pressure is about 10 lbs heavier than stock. Only noticeable or inconvenient in bad traffic jams. (You'll get used to it in a week.)
Sight rattle when pedal is depressed after "bedding-in." (Not intrusive... especially with window closed and A/C on.)

Your choice... Cheap... Stress... repeat costs vs. Expensive (stress-free) Exedy.

My $0.02¢

Last edited by nix; 12-05-2006 at 03:30 AM.
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