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Old 10-25-2006, 11:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Any tips for a rookie?

Well this Saturday I'm going to try and make it out to Fontana. Any tips for a new guy?



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Old 10-26-2006, 03:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Don't break anything and have fun!
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Sure, Larry, this is my stomping grounds:

1) First, learn to stage and how the lights work. It's important that you get this down pat so that you can never think about it again. If you are worried about staging and hitting the lights perfectly, you will not get your best run. There is a pre-stage and full-stage. You will roll slowly across the line and see the first set of small yellow bulbs light up - this is pre-stage. The common courtesy here is to wait for your opponent to also pre-stage before you do your full-stage, but in a test'n'tune situation, it's not important. When ready, roll forward SLOWLY until the 2nd set of yellow bulbs lights up and then stop immediately. This is the full-stage, and when your opponent is also full-staged, the timers will start. Shortly after, the red bulbs will light up followed by the 3 sets of large yellow bulbs and then green, which means go. These large bulbs are .5s apart, and when the green bulbs light, the drag timer begins. If you are still at the line when the green light hits, you are half a second late. You are supposed to leave on the 3rd yellow so that you cut the laser right about when the green hits. For now, this is not important, because this only affects your reaction time, and the reaction time does NOT affect your ET - it only matters in an actual competition.

2) The 60' time is the most important part of drag racing. This is basically your launch. If you are cutting 2.0 60's, then you will never get a good time. If you can get down to 1.7 60's, then you'll pull some very good times relative to your trap speeds. The mph you see on the timeslips is called your "trap speed." If you trap 105, that sucks. If you trap 110, that's pretty good. Trap speed is more of an indication of your car's actual power, whereas the ET (estimated time) is an indication of your driving ability. For instance, a [email protected] is great driving with a fairly weak Evo, whereas [email protected] is crappy driving in a strong Evo. Trap speeds can still be affected negatively by poor driving, such as slow shifts and/or poor shift points, but IN GENERAL, the trap speed is a good indicator of horsepower.

3) Start with your tires at 32psi all around, and try to launch with the quick slip method. This method entails you sitting at the lights with the rpms around 5500-6000, and when the lights come down, you slowly start to let out the clutch until you feel it grab. When it grabs, it will pull out the drivetrain slack and start to roll you forwrad. When you feel this forward motion and that the clutch has grabbed, then you hammer the throttle and let out the rest of the clutch quickly. This is going to give you a nice launch without shocking the drivetrain. Just don't ride the clutch too long, or you will burn the hell out of it and bounce off your rev limiter all the way through 1st while barely moving.





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Old 10-26-2006, 07:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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ET= Elapsed time. Other than that Warr is right on the money

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Old 10-26-2006, 08:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I just ran last weekend and lete me tell you try and learn your car as you go because I tried launching my car at to high of an rpm and my car would spin the tires and yes I was sliping the clutch out, I figured out that by launching lower I got my 1.7 60 foots down. Acording to what war said I drove my car prity good because I ran a 12.948 with a 1.839 60 ft at 107.09 mph and a 12.915 with a 1.797 60ft at 107.24 mph. I guess my car needs a better tune because the one I got was not agressive at all it was like a street tune.

Larry good luck and like I said figure out your launch and your driving as you go along at least thats what I did and started geting good 60 foots. Try not to get to nervouse which you cant realy help it on your first run but you will feel better the rest of the runs.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Well, 12.9s with 107+ is not very good. However, for your first time, it's not that bad. You can hit 12.6s with those trap speeds. Your power level is so-so...not terribly weak, but not really strong either. I don't know your mods, but I assume this was on 91oct. With 1.7 60s and 107mph, you should be seeing 12.6-12.7, so work on the shifting. For reference, my best up here at altitude is [email protected] on a 1.72 60'. That's a little misleading, though, because most runs I was trapping 109.5. Still, for having similar 60's, my ET is much lower, so that comes down to shifting. Oh, and due to altitude and the 6spd, I have to shift to 5th, so that slows me even more.

As for the tune, a "street tune" is not automatically non-aggressive. You can do a street tune as aggressive or conservative as you want, so your tune may not be aggressive (how do you know?), but that doesn't mean it's anything like a "street tune." All of my tuning is done on the road in order to ensure the proper load and road conditions, and I get tuned very aggressively.





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Old 10-26-2006, 12:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah i felt like I should have been hiting those times but I dont think I shift all that slow but the sad part is I was running 100 octane and 24 psi to achieve those times. Is there a sertan rpm to shift at instead of red line how do you do it. My parts are uper and lower intercooler pipes injen intake 2600 pound clutch lighter flywheel, 255 fuel pump,tuned with afc, 3" buschur turbo back exhaust. Also 720cc injectors which are way to big I know I dont need them but at the time when I bought them I was going to buy a turbo but had an emergency and spent the money.

I know you know more about afc settings and this is what I have on the setting lete me know what you think based on your experience because I am considering retuning it because they even told me they hardly ever work with an afc. Or should I wait to get camshafts to retune.


lo 35% high 60% On low its zero's (0) all the way ocross



rpm high

1000 +2
1800 +0
2200 +0
2800 -8
3400 -20
4000 -21
4600 -22
5200 -28
5800 -30
6400 -34
7000 -35
7600 -17
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Ok, well let's see. You just simply have the wrong combo of mods and need to start over. Here are my points:

1) Intake and IC pipes were expensive but not needed nor helpful.

2) There is no 2600lb clutch for the Evo (at least not made by any of the major companies).

3) Do you not have an MBC or BOV?

4) The 720s aren't necessarily too big, but they certainly aren't needed on the stock turbo. The only reason to have them is for getting gains out of the SAFC that are equal or similar to a basic flash that costs less than the injectors themselves. They should not be hurting you as long as the SAFC is tuned properly.

5) SAFC...ok, well, the whole point of having an SAFC is so that you can tune yourself. You shouldn't be taking it some other place to have them tune it - that would be why you get a flash, so that you get maximum power for the least money with the best tuning device. Buying an SAFC + injectors, then paying someone to tune it is a huge waste of money, imo. Even worse if the shop says they hardly ever tune SAFCs - to me, that means they aren't good at it. I can't say if your settings are good or bad, because it depends on the car. I'd have to see AFR, timing, and boost logs as well as LTFT/STFTs. One major problem I see is that your low throttle settings are 0!!!! You can't have a car that runs well if you have 720cc injectors and no fuel compensation at low throttle and idle. That may not hurt you on the drag strip, but it sure as hell makes the car a POS for daily driving and when idling. Have you not noticed the ill effects of this?

6) Race gas. Unless you were rasing the boost and/or leaning out the SAFC settings, then the 100oct wasn't helpful.

I suggest selling the SAFC and injectors, put back in your stock injectors, get a Forge UNOS MBC, Forge RS DV (or JDM MR DV), and then get flashed. You can get a mail-in flash from Dynoflash or go find some local tuner in your area. I am pretty sure there's several. This is a much better bet than trying to figure out your safc or paying someone to tune it, imo. You also would have the luxury of tuning yourself with free flashing software if you ever had the desire. 1000X better than an SAFC, which is now obsolete.

Yes, you will need a retune with cams, but again, you have an SAFC that can be retuned anytime on anyday, so the natural thing to do would be to retune yourself properly now and then do it again after adding cams. If you can't do that, then get flashed.





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Old 10-26-2006, 01:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yeah thanks I think I am going to start over like you said because I am going to return my car back to stock any way for warranty I have a small grind on 4th and 5th. I do have a boost controler its hall man sorry about that I have the jdm metal blowoff valve. If I were to upgrade my turbo setup would i need the intake later. The clutch is a 2900 pnd x clutch from road race which i heard its not that great but will do for now. I will take your advice and sell the intercooler pipes put my stock injectors and get a flash thankls for the help and will keep you updated if the results are better.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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You don't have to sell the IC pipes, but if you want the extra cash to put towards a flash or other mods, then that will work. The lower IC pipe is a good mod, so keep that, but the UICP is just a bling mod.

Hallman + JDM MR DV = great.

If you get a turbo upgrade kit, it will probably come with its own custom intake. You would only use the Injen if you did a stock-style turbo upgrade like a IX, a White Rabbit, a TME, or a 20g.





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Old 10-26-2006, 06:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Hey Warr, just curious, how do you shift, and at what RPM? I think cul8rv8 asked too.
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Old 10-26-2006, 09:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emd645e3
Hey Warr, just curious, how do you shift, and at what RPM? I think cul8rv8 asked too.
This is how I shift:

12.30 <- This is at 6000' altitude, which is why it's fairly slow.

I powershift every gear now with the Exedy clutch, which means I don't lift my foot off the gas, and I snatch the next gear with lightning speed (or so I tell myself). At sea level, I used to shift around 7000-7100, but at altitude, I have to shift at 6300-6400, since the turbo runs out of breath and power drops off so much earlier.





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Old 10-26-2006, 09:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Hey fella's! Since we're talking about the racetrack and quarter mile attempts. When I ran my Evo VIII purely stock; my best time was a 13.6 @ 101mph with a trap speed of a 1.8! But last week, my car has been lowered, Blow off valve is the jdm mr and even a perrin short shifter. This time, I ran a 13.8 best @ 97mph with a trap speed of a 1.9. I believe my car has lost some power mayb due to the blow off valve. Also, I don't have good tires on as of right now. Do tires really affect performance wise on a 4wd car? I think it does but my cousin was telling me that as wear and tear comes along with everything. He said it is just the motor as it ages. I can also tell when a good run will occurr due to how it launches and picks up. I'd love it if it could stay close to mid range and just KICK from then on but usually it'll just go a little bit lower and pick up. I launch my car around 5-6k but never 7k! The way I launch my car would be to play with the rpms and then dump the clutch when its time to go! Overall, I might have to replace the blow off valve back to stock and maybe buy a really good aftermarket one that'll sound really loud and perform well. Since its currently rarely being driven, I think I will have to tune it up some more to restore optimum performance. I really want to hit low 13's someday. Anybody have anything to say? advice? solutions? Thanks!
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Old 10-27-2006, 09:36 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Hmmm, a few things:

1) That is the exact BOV you want, however, you have no need for it if you have no other mods. Why do you have that but no power mods like an exhaust, mbc, or tune? The BOV is a supporting mod for running higher boost, so if you are not running higher boost, t hen it is of very little use or benefit. To reiterate, though, it is the best one you could have right now, though.

2) Trap speed is the speed you have through the traps. The traps are the last boxes at the end of the track that determine your time (and speed). The 1.8 and 1.9 are your 60 foot times, not the trap speeds. 1.8 and 1.9 aren't awful, but they are not good - not quite average even. Your stock run with a 101mph trap speed was good enough for a 13.3 or 13.4 with a good launch (~1.7 60').

3) No, the JDM MR DV did not slow you down unless you messed up the installation or messed up something in your boost system. It comes stock on Evo IXs, and they are fast as all hell, so that is very unlikely. Your cousin is definitely not right. The engine doesn't just suddenly start making 40 less whp. Yeah, wear and tear occurs, but we don't just start losing power, especially not on a car that is rarely driven. I think that either the conditions were worse (hotter, more humid, etc) or that something mechanically has gone wrong.

4) When you say "maybe buy a really good aftermarket one that'll sound really loud and perform well," you are going down the path of destruction. There is nothing good about a BOV "sounding really loud." That is pure rice and does nothing for performance. Also, the BOV you have already IS a really good BOV. There is not an aftermarket BOV that is better for your application, and sounding loud has nothing to do with performing well. The ones that are loud vent to atmosphere, and venting to atmosphere is not proper on an Evo, because we have a MAF that meters incoming air, so if you spit that air out the BOV, it throws off the air fuel ratios.

5) Since the car isn't driven much, I think you should start by putting in a fresh set of plugs. Go to Advanced Auto and buy a pack of NGK BPR7ES, then gap them to .026 and install. The install is very easy.

6) If there is no improvement, then you need to do a boost leak test. I am not sure you have the mechanical savvy to do it yourself, so if you can, find someone that knows Evos or DSMs and see if they can help you...or a local shop even. If you can do it yourself, then use this link as your guide: http://vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html





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Old 10-28-2006, 08:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Mechanical Problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Hmmm, a few things:

1) That is the exact BOV you want, however, you have no need for it if you have no other mods. Why do you have that but no power mods like an exhaust, mbc, or tune? The BOV is a supporting mod for running higher boost, so if you are not running higher boost, t hen it is of very little use or benefit. To reiterate, though, it is the best one you could have right now, though.

2) Trap speed is the speed you have through the traps. The traps are the last boxes at the end of the track that determine your time (and speed). The 1.8 and 1.9 are your 60 foot times, not the trap speeds. 1.8 and 1.9 aren't awful, but they are not good - not quite average even. Your stock run with a 101mph trap speed was good enough for a 13.3 or 13.4 with a good launch (~1.7 60').

3) No, the JDM MR DV did not slow you down unless you messed up the installation or messed up something in your boost system. It comes stock on Evo IXs, and they are fast as all hell, so that is very unlikely. Your cousin is definitely not right. The engine doesn't just suddenly start making 40 less whp. Yeah, wear and tear occurs, but we don't just start losing power, especially not on a car that is rarely driven. I think that either the conditions were worse (hotter, more humid, etc) or that something mechanically has gone wrong.

4) When you say "maybe buy a really good aftermarket one that'll sound really loud and perform well," you are going down the path of destruction. There is nothing good about a BOV "sounding really loud." That is pure rice and does nothing for performance. Also, the BOV you have already IS a really good BOV. There is not an aftermarket BOV that is better for your application, and sounding loud has nothing to do with performing well. The ones that are loud vent to atmosphere, and venting to atmosphere is not proper on an Evo, because we have a MAF that meters incoming air, so if you spit that air out the BOV, it throws off the air fuel ratios.

5) Since the car isn't driven much, I think you should start by putting in a fresh set of plugs. Go to Advanced Auto and buy a pack of NGK BPR7ES, then gap them to .026 and install. The install is very easy.

6) If there is no improvement, then you need to do a boost leak test. I am not sure you have the mechanical savvy to do it yourself, so if you can, find someone that knows Evos or DSMs and see if they can help you...or a local shop even. If you can do it yourself, then use this link as your guide: http://vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html
Yea, thanks for your advice! I knew what trap speed was about, I just didn't proofread my entry when I wrote it. haha But yea, It feels good to have the right BOV for my Evo8. Although I mite need to let a profressional look at it in case it's installed incorrectly. Do tires matter on a 4wd drive car and I've also heard its problematic dumping the clutch on a "launch"? I've always been prone to do that tho and no other way? I know for a fact my car is not 100% running right because my motor does not sound the same when I first got it. You can hear continuously ticking and the motor whines as you drive it also. I mean, it sounds good in a way but I know it's not normal. My exhaust has sounded louder just the other week mayb due to going through a dirt road and hitting a chunk of a rock along the way dragging under my car. Also, I'd need a alignment since I havn't gotten one since modifying my suspension. I have NGK Iridiums also; havn't had time to install them. I hope it works!! I know if I just tell the dealership mechanics to check and fix anything that would be wrong with my car, it will be expensive and they could possibly just cause more problems to make money! Who know's?? hehe But yea, any advice will help me within the future. Thanks!
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