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Old 01-20-2007, 07:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Question Afc?

Does anyone know if an apexi afc is sufficiant enough to tune a 272/272 setup.
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Well, that questions isn't really valid. You can tune an Evo with an SAFC with or without cams to the same level, but an SAFC is not recommended at any level of modding on an Evo. I see you're here in th RM region. You should post on RMEVO.com, which is the RM region of this site so we can help you out. You want to use a flash for sure, because the SAFC is far inferior and not worth the money to own or use it.





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Old 01-20-2007, 09:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Darwin's 8 View Post
Does anyone know if an apexi afc is sufficiant enough to tune a 272/272 setup.
It depends on your definition of sufficiant. If your looking to run your car at the track and go all out race, then no. If your just running late to work and would like a little more power, then yes. Everyone says it's crude, outdated, "caveman" even; but it's easy and it works good for street set ups. I've set up several Evo's running 272's and an AFC. It's felt good every time.



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Old 01-20-2007, 02:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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I bought the safc last year so its too late to not buy it. And I'll need to flash the ecu? Can't you set the afc to different settings for example a setting for the track and one for the street?
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Old 01-20-2007, 03:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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You can, but the SAFC can only adjust AFRs, and it's only able to do it every 1000rpm or every 400 rpm depending on the model you have. It has no control over timing, the rev limiter, launch control, injector scaling, maf scaling, load scaling, etc etc etc. You can have multiple custom flashes for track and street. I personally have 4 different ones: 3 for racing and one for street. EcuFlash is a free program, so you just need the flashing cable and to get custom tuned by an expert.

Even though you've already bought it, it's worth it to get a flash. To properly use the SAFC, you need a wideband o2 and logging software in order to tune it yourself, yet you'll never be able to make it a really good tune. Paying someone else to tune your SAFC is the worst thing you could do, because that same money could be used on a flash.





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Old 01-20-2007, 07:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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well im kinda scared to tune it my self cause honestly i don't know what im doing. So basiclly your saying the safc is obsalete in the senerio that im upgrding cams. Should i get rid of it or will it help at all? Also i keep hearing that a 264/272 combo might be better for high end power, then ive heard 272/272 is better for where we live as far as altitude.
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Yes, with the release of EcuFlash, the SAFC is now obsolete. Also, the ONLY reason to have an SAFC is so you can tune yourself easily. If you're not tuning yourself, then you have _0_ reason to have an SAFC, because you then end up paying someone to tune you when you could just get tuned via flash, which is far superior. It has nothing to do with cams or not - this goes for an Evo at any level of modification from stock to the point you overrun the stock MAF in terms of max airflow (550-ish whp).

I am not sure on the cams thing. I added 272i/264e cams after moving here and gained no power whatsoever while losing 200rpm of spool, but that is not normal. We found some strange things inside my head that may have had an effect, but I haven't seen enough other examples up here to clearly state that one combo does better than another. At sea level, 272s are great for top end without losing mid-range, but I'm not sure up here.





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Old 01-21-2007, 09:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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well im kinda scared to tune it my self cause honestly i don't know what im doing. So basiclly your saying the safc is obsalete in the senerio that im upgrding cams.
It will work with the cams.
Is it the newest and best tuning thing out there right now? No.
Is it the easiest to learn so you can do some stuff yourself? Yes.
Is it a great way to learn how AFR, boost, octane, and timing all effect knock so that you can graduate to flashing your own maps safely? Yes.
The S-AFC II is the one with two maps.
Read this. It for DSM's but it applies to us too;
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105569
It's OK to be scared when your just learning. Everyone who played with tuning was, but that's why we're here; to help each other out.
Also, there are plenty of places around that will take your money and tell you a tune is good, which is the biggest reason everyone should learn this stuff too.



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Old 01-23-2007, 05:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Well as long as safc II dosen't hurt along side the ecu flash i guess ill just keep it installed. i really screwed something up once when i was trying to change the display on the afc and my car started acting real weird. Ever since i've been scared to touch the damn thing. So what do you guys think...272/272 or 264/272. I feel i need more mid range power. from 4000rpm to 6000 it just dosen't pull as hard.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Darwin's 8 View Post
Well as long as safc II dosen't hurt along side the ecu flash i guess ill just keep it installed. i really screwed something up once when i was trying to change the display on the afc and my car started acting real weird. Ever since i've been scared to touch the damn thing. So what do you guys think...272/272 or 264/272. I feel i need more mid range power. from 4000rpm to 6000 it just dosen't pull as hard.
Go with 272e/272i. Yes, keep playing with safc until you get something and brake it! Just kidding. But you should hook with pro guys and let them do it rigth. Its recomends that you change fuel pump first before flash for more power, if you have it already, good! Keep tuning until your car is not running too rich, means black smoke - your car running too rich... Wish you luck!
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 05evo View Post
Go with 272e/272i. Yes, keep playing with safc until you get something and brake it! Just kidding. But you should hook with pro guys and let them do it rigth. Its recomends that you change fuel pump first before flash for more power, if you have it already, good! Keep tuning until your car is not running too rich, means black smoke - your car running too rich... Wish you luck!
Please don't tell me this is the method you used for your car or plan to use. You should always use a logging program or wideband when tuning with a AFC. Listen to Warr and Fourdoor they will take care of you.
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Old 01-24-2007, 08:16 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Darwin's 8, we need to get together, so I can help you out. YOU definitely don't want the SAFC in the way if you're afraid to even touch it. We need to remove it, sell it, and get you custom flashed, then you'll be in perfect shape with nothing to worry about.

05evo suggested 272s, but he doesn't understand the altitude problem. I think before deciding on cams, we should get you in tune first, then dyno it to see what's going on, and after that we can make a better cams decision.





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Old 01-24-2007, 05:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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That would be cool with me if you know how to do all that. What part of town are you in? I usually go to Racing Trenz. Why do we need the flash before cams? Ive only done a few bolt ons so far. Do you know someone with a dyno?
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Old 01-24-2007, 06:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Yeesh, ok, let's start over.

1) I know how to remove the SAFC, and I know how to flash you, but I am not a tuner, so I won't be tuning you. I do have a trusted tuner in the area, though, who can flash you for a good price.

2) I'm in the Springs.

3) Never heard of Racing Trenz, and they are certainly not known in the local racing circles nor are they known as an Evo shop at least as far as I've seen. What do they specialize in? I haven't seen them on any of the local racing forums as sponsors or as participants or as references from other racers. Fill me in.

4) You don't have to get a flash before cams, but it's senseless to drive without a tune . If you're getting the cams very soon, then yeah, get the flash after they're installed. If it's going to be a while, you should go ahead and get a good custom flash tune in the near future.

5) Yes, I know lots of places with a dyno, but you don't need one to get tuned.





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Old 01-24-2007, 07:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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They are in Denver. I have been going to Trenz for like 10 years. They do a lot of hondas but they mainly work on Evos and STi's. Theyre alright, my go to guy who worked there left the state so I i haven't been there in a while. I'd like to learn to do the work myself I just don't want to mess anything up. This car is a far cry from my old hondas. Cams are coming real soon so i'll do the flash afterward, get rid of the afc and see where we are.
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