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Old 06-09-2005, 08:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
Registered: May 2005
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Flashing ECU?

Hey, ill be getting mods done soon, and whats a way to flash your ecu say for an open box intake. Besides buying a ems or a a/f comp. If buying either of those is way better let me know. But right now im lookin to just get a bov, exhaust, intake, and b/c on and im lookin to reflash deffinetly after the intake. Help me out
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Old 06-09-2005, 08:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CArkid0101
Hey, ill be getting mods done soon, and whats a way to flash your ecu say for an open box intake. Besides buying a ems or a a/f comp. If buying either of those is way better let me know. But right now im lookin to just get a bov, exhaust, intake, and b/c on and im lookin to reflash deffinetly after the intake. Help me out
Ok, let's have a chat.

You are talking about 3 different tuning methods here: flash (e.g. Dynoflash), Standalone ECU (AEM EMS), and Piggyback (S-AFC).

Flash - You either send your ECU to a specific flash tuner (DynoFlash or TurboTrix), and they send it back after reprogramming it to suit your mods, or they custom tune you in person (you drive to them or they drive to you).

Piggyback - In this case, you don't send your ECU anywhere, and no one messes with it, but you install your piggyback device by splicing into the ECU wires. The ECU still does everything, but your device (e.g. S-AFC) is able to control certain functions within the ECU while also monitoring many ECU readings. I use an S-AFC, and with that, I'm able to tune my air-fuel ratios at 500rpm intervals in order to maximize power with my mods. I can change my settings on the fly whenever I want, but I have to have a loggind device (pocketlogger) to keep track of everything. This is useful at the track for using race gas, for changing the settings when the weather changes (hot vs cold, dry vs humid), and for whenever I put on a new mod.

Standalone ECU - this is for SERIOUS tuners making SERIOUS horsepower. This type of mod COMPLETELY replaces your stock ECU and requires a serious amount of knowledge to make it work. This is far beyond any level of tuning I've ever reached, so I can't say much about it. I don't think you want to take this route.

Now, to answer your question, you have to first decide whether you plan on getting flashed and letting your tuner of choice decide your settings, or if you want an S-AFC so that you are in control of your AF ratio. I prefer the S-AFC, because I like to be in control, but if you don't know much about tuning, then you should consider a flash. A flash can do much more (control a/f, timing, set boost, remove boost taper, raise rev limit, remove 5k launch limiter in 05s, etc) than an S-AFC (ONLY controls A/F), but you have to keep getting reflashed if you change your mods.

Why do you want to get a flash after just an intake? What type of intake do you want, and why is that your first mod? It's a pretty standard mod in most cars, but in the Evo, the stock intake has been proven to flow very well, and in some cases BETTER than some aftermarket intakes. This is because the stock intake only draws air from OUTSIDE the engine bay (good ole snorkel), and because the stock airbox keeps the air smooth so that the MAF isn't disturbed. Open-air filters draw in hot engine air, and the air is more turbulent, which bothers the sensitive MAF. This doesn't mean aftermarket intakes aren't useful or that they can't be good, but they are generally not worth the money for the minimal gain. The best mods for gaining power are exhaust and boost control. When you raise boost, an aftermarket BOV will become useful, but the stocker is fine for stock boost. If you still decide to get an intake first along with a flash, remember that you will have to pay more to get RE-flashed after adding more mods. Each time you add a mod, you will need to get re-flashed, depending on what the mod is (exhaust, mbc, fuel pump = reflash; bov, plugs, grounding kit = no).



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Old 06-09-2005, 09:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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i was talking to someone and they said if you get an open box intake you need a reflash to drive because of the maf. Its probably not going to be my first mod. My situation is that im graduating highschool and im getting presents. Ill tell you more after sunday, but i do want to get exhuast, bov, mbc, intake, maybe somethin else all on before i do any type of reflash. Ill do it all in a weekend then have the reflash done. I have another car that i can drive while the evo is down.
With the afc can you adjust for mods? I would like to learn how to do some tuning also. Im not really all for sending my ecu anywhere either. Idk, if a afc can adjust for mods then ill wait and get one of those also. When i say adjust for mods i mean make hp and make a smooth running car. Let me know whats up.
Thanks a ton for the help on this, i really do appriciate it
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Old 06-09-2005, 09:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CArkid0101
i was talking to someone and they said if you get an open box intake you need a reflash to drive because of the maf. Its probably not going to be my first mod. My situation is that im graduating highschool and im getting presents. Ill tell you more after sunday, but i do want to get exhuast, bov, mbc, intake, maybe somethin else all on before i do any type of reflash. Ill do it all in a weekend then have the reflash done. I have another car that i can drive while the evo is down.
With the afc can you adjust for mods? I would like to learn how to do some tuning also. Im not really all for sending my ecu anywhere either. Idk, if a afc can adjust for mods then ill wait and get one of those also. When i say adjust for mods i mean make hp and make a smooth running car. Let me know whats up.
Thanks a ton for the help on this, i really do appriciate it
Well, your friend was right. Those open-air aftermarket intakes usually run crappy when installed without a tune, but if you get it tuned, then it's fine. That's why he said you need a reflash...it's not that you need a "flash," but you need tuning...hope that's clear.

If you are going to do those mods before a flash, then you will be in perfect shape. With TBE, intake, bov, [email protected], and a flash, you should be around 300whp on an 03-04...maybe 310-315 on an 05.

As for the S-AFC, yes of course you can adjust for mods. If you look at my sig, you will see that with no mods, I was able to throw on the S-AFC and run a 12.8. Yeah, I had a K&N drop-in filter, but that's really no help...I could put in the stocker and run the same. Now, in the last 2 weeks, I've added a 3" cat-back and a Hallman MBC @ 21psi. After installing these 2, I was running really rich, so I just went out and tuned it on the fly. After 3-4 tuning runs, I got my AFR back into the optimum ranges and started making a lot more power. It's so awesome to be able to retune immediately without waiting on a reflash. Even better is if you get a flash to utilize all its benefits, and THEN toss on an S-AFC to fine-tune the flash and to tune for mods, higher octane, change in temp/humidity, etc. This way you get all the special Flash features PLUS the ability to tune on your own at all times, but of course this costs a lot more.



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Old 06-10-2005, 08:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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my question is, that if i get an afc can that replace the need for a flash when installing mods? Because i dont know when and how ill be getting the mods and i dont want to keep reflashing. Eventually i will have a flash, but i need to find a place that does them and how much they are.
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CArkid0101
my question is, that if i get an afc can that replace the need for a flash when installing mods? Because i dont know when and how ill be getting the mods and i dont want to keep reflashing.
You aren't reading my novels very closely!

Piggyback - In this case, you don't send your ECU anywhere, and no one messes with it, but you install your piggyback device by splicing into the ECU wires.

As for the S-AFC, yes of course you can adjust for mods. If you look at my sig, you will see that with no mods, I was able to throw on the S-AFC and run a 12.8. Yeah, I had a K&N drop-in filter, but that's really no help...I could put in the stocker and run the same. Now, in the last 2 weeks, I've added a 3" cat-back and a Hallman MBC @ 21psi. After installing these 2, I was running really rich, so I just went out and tuned it on the fly. After 3-4 tuning runs, I got my AFR back into the optimum ranges and started making a lot more power. It's so awesome to be able to retune immediately without waiting on a reflash.

Yes, the S-AFC is what I use IN PLACE OF A FLASH. Unlike a flash, it allows you to tune and re-tune every time you get a new mod without paying anymore money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CArkid0101
Eventually i will have a flash, but i need to find a place that does them and how much they are.
Flash - You either send your ECU to a specific flash tuner (DynoFlash or TurboTrix)

I gave you the two primary tuners who do flashes. You will have to send the ECU to them, drive to their shops, or be in an area where they are traveling to do custom tuning. Go to their websites for info on pricing.

Also, why do you say "eventually" you will have a flash? If you go the S-AFC route, you don't need to worry about spending money on a flash. If you are EVENTUALLY going to go to a flash anyway, then save your money and don't get an S-AFC. Unless you really really want to spend the money on both, I suggest picking one now and sticking with it.



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Old 06-10-2005, 09:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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i get it now, sorry, im just makin sure because i wanna do it right and not have to worry. thanks
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CArkid0101
i get it now, sorry, im just makin sure because i wanna do it right and not have to worry. thanks
If you go with the S-AFC, you have great resources right here:

How to Install the S-AFC

How to tune with the S-AFC

Plus, you will have lots of us here who use the S-AFC religiously and will be willing to help you figure it all out.



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Old 06-12-2005, 06:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Hey Warrtalon i notice u said u can have the flash and afc but can u have the flash and lets say aem standalone? or does the aem replaces that. thanks man cuase i notice al does his dynoflash for customers but he has aem also so im assumin he just has the aem and not the flash on his personal evo thanks man
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91gstman
Hey Warrtalon i notice u said u can have the flash and afc but can u have the flash and lets say aem standalone? or does the aem replaces that. thanks man cuase i notice al does his dynoflash for customers but he has aem also so im assumin he just has the aem and not the flash on his personal evo thanks man

Maybe you could, but I don't see any reason to do it, because the AEM EMS is a fully-programmable standalone ECU. It requires a LOT of knowledge and a LOT of time to get it tuned properly, but in the end, it is capable of far more than any flash or piggyback. At the point someone gets an AEM EMS, they aren't concerned with any sort of "flash" I wouldn't think.



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Old 06-13-2005, 01:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91gstman
Hey Warrtalon i notice u said u can have the flash and afc but can u have the flash and lets say aem standalone? or does the aem replaces that. thanks man cuase i notice al does his dynoflash for customers but he has aem also so im assumin he just has the aem and not the flash on his personal evo thanks man
I have a flash from Al and am really happy that I have it. I also run a s-afc to fine tune on different days. So an answer to an early question, yes you can run a s-afc wiht a flash, actually I highly recommend it.
Yes Al does run an AEM EMS on his car. The reason being, he can control EVERYTHING with it. He is able to tune the most minute things on his car. He is able to adjust how much alcohol or race gas he wants squirting out at an RPM. The EMS is a complete replacement for the stock ECU. I only recommend the EMS to people that are completely knowledgeable with tuning. You have to tune for everything in the EMS, start up, when your ac is on, etc.
So in answer to your question, no you can not have a flash and a standalone. The stand alone is just that, a stand alone engine manegment system.
Bottom line, EMS is a LOT better than the flash.
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Old 06-22-2005, 06:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Please sell things in the classified section.

Last edited by turbolarry; 06-23-2005 at 10:38 AM. Reason: not tuning related
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