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Old 08-12-2006, 11:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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HELP!!! How much gain w/ safc tune vs. stock factory settings?

Hey guys,

This is such a great site. everyone respects everyone else, and all seem to be very helpful.

Anywayz, i just want to know around how much gain does an safc tune give a stock evo w/ factory settings? Reflashes are out of the question since I live in Manila. To be honest, I have installed HKS cams at 0/0, walbro, boost at 18psi, full exhaust and dp, intake, lower icp upgrade, and other basic bits. The car has never been tuned with anything. Will the SAFC give some more power?

Hope to hear from you soon. Again, respect bro.
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Old 08-12-2006, 12:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboj_551
Hey guys,

This is such a great site. everyone respects everyone else, and all seem to be very helpful.

Anywayz, i just want to know around how much gain does an safc tune give a stock evo w/ factory settings? Reflashes are out of the question since I live in Manila. To be honest, I have installed HKS cams at 0/0, walbro, boost at 18psi, full exhaust and dp, intake, lower icp upgrade, and other basic bits. The car has never been tuned with anything. Will the SAFC give some more power?

Hope to hear from you soon. Again, respect bro.

Thanks for the good words on the site and welcome. Yea, we encouarge helping others and minimize the BS.
No one can tell you how much you will gain because there are too many variables; octane, temperatures, boost leaks, and every car is different.
I can tell you that you will gain power if your able to lean it out some, but it might not be much because cams let in a lot more air and you're still on stock injectors. Which HKS grind are you running?
If you upgrade injectors you'll will flow more fuel, allow you to lean it out more, and take advanage of stock timing maps and gain even more power.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105569
Maybe consider 660cc injectors if your sticking with the stock turbo, or 720cc's if a turbo upgrade is in your future.
Do you have a logger?
I've been running an S-AFC for years. It's simple and effective for running around on the streets.



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Old 08-14-2006, 05:25 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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I see, well there you go, another simple and straightforward answer from someone worth talking to. I tell you, all the other evo sites just seem to show off their "know-how". I don't need that crap. Thanks Larry. I'll be holding out on that safc first then, I find it useless since I have no plans on buying new injectors at the moment. The cams I bought are 264/272's. They gained a few, but doesn't really blow my mind. Or maybe I was expecting way too much from what I have read. Again, those were from the other BS sites.

I'll be hangin' on for a while first, the car runs great anyway, if I'd be spending a couple of hundred dollars on this and get minimal gains, I'd rather wait til I can really afford it. I'm not really planning on taking the car to 500hp like most of you out there in US, there's just not room for that here in the busted streets of Manila. At least the cams are in, that was the expensive part! I'll be saving up for 660's as you said, together with the NEO maybe since it won't be immediate anyway! That's about it, I'll be letting you know how it turns out! Thanks for your reply, I made a quick and definite decision coz of it. Cheers bro!
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Old 08-14-2006, 10:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I can't speak for others, but I'm just working with the stock turbo.
264/272's and 660's dialed in...
You'll feel it.



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Old 08-14-2006, 12:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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A flash is a better option, but since it's not an option (are you sure?), then an SAFC is a great fallback. Both Larry and myself have been successful with SAFCs for years, and I personally have lots of timeslips and dynographs to prove it. I still prefer a flash, since it's so much more robust, but you definitely will see gains with a proper tune on an SAFC. It's not so much a question of IF it can give you gains - it's just a question of IS the car poorly tuned on the factory settings? Well, yes, the stock tune is very weak due to richness, and especially with all those mods you have, you're just throwing everything out of whack. With all those mods, you probably have very little power gain without a tune, but with a tune (even if it's an SAFC), you will harness all the power potential of the stock turbo with all those mods.





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Old 08-19-2006, 08:36 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Wow thank you guys. I have installed the safc now, but i have one question for now. Since I have the HKS264/272 cams, does this lean out the A/F on its own without the tune? I was wondering if it leaned or made the car richer, my idea is that more air is being put in by those more "aggressive" cams right?
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Old 08-19-2006, 12:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by turboj_551
... I have the HKS264/272 cams, does this lean out the A/F on its own without the tune? ... my idea is that more air is being put in by those more "aggressive" cams right?
You are correct; the cams let in more air/make things leaner.



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Old 08-24-2006, 03:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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You are correct; the cams let in more air/make things leaner.
The cams let in more air, and the MAF sensor see this extra air comming in and adds the correct amount of extra fuel.... makes very little difference in the tune (some, but it is minor) as long as you have the stock intake so your MAF sensor readings are not messed up.

Keith
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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guys, since the cams are in, the ecu automatically fixes things up??? so if the cams made it lean, the maf will put in more fuel, then I am still rich?! so with the cams in I will still lean in out?
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Whoa, whoa, no. The ECU will compensate some, but you need to get tuned to maximize the power output and to smooth the AFRs/timing. You shouldn't be asking us which way to go with the AFRs. You should be monitoring your AFRs with a wideband and your timing with a pocketlogger. Based off those readings, you then know what to do. You may have to add fuel at some rpms and remove fuel at others. Until you log your car's behavior, you won't know which to do...





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Old 09-04-2006, 06:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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ok! thanks! does the Zeitronics Zt-2 have the function to read timing as well? If so, how do I adjust it? Should I buy the Apex'i ITC on top of the safc and the wideband to adjust timing?
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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No, timing has to be read through the OBD-II port, which means you'll need a pocketlogger or something similar. I recommend EvoScan, which is like $15, but it requires the Tactrix flashing cable. However, I'm not sure if it the software is compatible with every type of ECU, but I think it is, since it's just OBD-II.

Your other option is to piece together or simply buy a pocketlogger like the ones at pocketlogger.com.





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Old 09-05-2006, 04:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I havn't seen an Apexi ITC since 1999.... do they still make them? I think the SAFC and ITC were a great combination back in the day, and don't see why they couldn't work just as well now for people sticking with piggyback controls.

Keith
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