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Old 12-08-2005, 06:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Reflash or a good old SAFC2?

I'm either looking to get a reflash or just pay to get my SAFC2 on a dyno with wideband? Which would be better, I am looking for your personal experiences not someone elses. I will also be getting a 255lph fuel pump before either. I'm not looking for a all out race tune just a street tune that will give me more power, and maybe a little more MPG if I don't put my foot down all the time. Also if you guys have suggestions on any reflashes please leave me a link and your thoughts about it. Thanks for all the help in advance.
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Old 12-08-2005, 11:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
I'm either looking to get a reflash or just pay to get my SAFC2 on a dyno with wideband? Which would be better, I am looking for your personal experiences not someone elses. I will also be getting a 255lph fuel pump before either. I'm not looking for a all out race tune just a street tune that will give me more power, and maybe a little more MPG if I don't put my foot down all the time. Also if you guys have suggestions on any reflashes please leave me a link and your thoughts about it. Thanks for all the help in advance.
I can definitely give first-hand experience. You should read my response to turbolarry in the thread where he wrote a letter to Turbo MAgazine concerning flashes, specifically their 5-page article on Dynoflash.

First of all, by no means should you choose to get an SAFC then pay someone ELSE to tune it for you. That is absolutely NOT the purpose of an SAFC. If you are going to pay someone ELSE to do your tuning, then you should most DEFINITELY get a flash. It will be MUCH less expensive, while being superior. The purpose of the SAFC is to have control of your OWN tuning so that you can adjust it according to your preferences, re-tune when adding mods, and/or retune on the fly when using race gas at the track. Paying someone else to tune your S-AFC is a waste of money, imo.

Now, if I compare a self-tuned SAFC to a flash, here is what I have to say:

Pros:
SAFC -
1) Can be bought used for very cheap ($200-250) - price includes the suggested patch harness that is usually pre-spliced when purchased used (patch harness keeps you from having to splice factory ECU wires).
2) Allows for self-tuning when adding mods, changing boost, changing octane, or all of the above at once
3) Provides useful monitoring devices (airflow, rpm, tps)
4) Allows for 2 pre-programmed maps, which is good if you want a pump gas and race gas map

Flash -
1) Requires no work and no learning
2) Is proven and will definitely make good power.
3) Very inexpensive for a mail-in flash ($199). Custom flash in person is good, too, and not terribly expensive ($399).
4) Removes fuel cut, raises rev limiter to wherever you desire (7800 default), and can provide launch control at your preferred RPM
5) Has direct control over timing AND AFRs, which is preferable

Cons:
SAFC -
1) Requires additional purchase of logging device and support gauges (i.e. wideband O2 and EGT)
2) Only manipulates what the ECU thinks the MAF is seeing, which then causes the ECU to use different timing maps associated with the AFRs and airflow, so there is NO timing control...just indirect timing manipulation
3) The Evo factory tune is LEAN in the peak torque range (3500-4500rpm), and the only way to lower it is to add fuel. Adding fuel on the SAFC casues lower timing. The end result is you end up making much less peak torque with noticeably less area under the curve (dynograph).
4) Cannot remove fuel cut, cannot raise rev limiter, cannot be used to set launch control

Flash -
1) Not customizable by the customer.
2) Requires retuning with addition or change of mods
3) Not helpful if you want to use race gas at the track - can't retune for it on the fly
4) Have to remove ECU and send through mail then wait for it to return on a mail-in flash...or have to wait for tuner to come to your area for in-person tunes
5) Reprograms the ECU, which can be detected by the dealership on 05s and later

I personally suggest Dynoflash, because I've been extremely successful with his tunes, and because I am now sponsored by him.





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Old 12-08-2005, 11:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Warrtalon hit it right on the head.
In light of my other post... I'll stay out of this one.



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Old 12-08-2005, 11:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolarry
Warrtalon hit it right on the head.
In light of my other post... I'll stay out of this one.
Hey, I need some more reputation points!





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Old 12-08-2005, 12:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info. I already have a SAFC2 from my previous DSM. I wasn't going to tune it myself because i lack a wideband and a logger at this time. The shop I was looking into will tune it on the Dyno with wideband so i was going to kill 2 birds with one stone, get a tune and a dyno. Also should I get a bigger fuel pump before I do either the flash or the SAFC2 tune? I wish I had the money to do everything right now, but i don't. Thanks for the info, I think the reflash may be the way I'm going to go, since I don't run race gas or mod my car that often.
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Old 12-08-2005, 04:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
Thanks for the info. I already have a SAFC2 from my previous DSM. I wasn't going to tune it myself because i lack a wideband and a logger at this time. The shop I was looking into will tune it on the Dyno with wideband so i was going to kill 2 birds with one stone, get a tune and a dyno. Also should I get a bigger fuel pump before I do either the flash or the SAFC2 tune? I wish I had the money to do everything right now, but i don't. Thanks for the info, I think the reflash may be the way I'm going to go, since I don't run race gas or mod my car that often.
If you're going to get a flash, I do recommend installing the fuel pump first, else you'll have to get it reflashed again just for the pump. With the S-AFC, it shouldn't matter, because you can always retune after adding the pump. Btw, many of us just tune off narrowband while using a logger. It only costs $100 or so to put together a pocketlogger. Wideband O2s are preferable, but you can still tune pretty well with narrowband and timing.





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Old 12-08-2005, 06:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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where can i get the logger cables and software? I would like to have one of these no matter which way i decide to go. I think i'm gonna get a fuel pump and get the reflash and then tune the SAFC2 after i get a logger. I have no money at the moment anyway, hopefully that changes after christmas.
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
where can i get the logger cables and software? I would like to have one of these no matter which way i decide to go. I think i'm gonna get a fuel pump and get the reflash and then tune the SAFC2 after i get a logger. I have no money at the moment anyway, hopefully that changes after christmas.

Here you go;
http://students.db.erau.edu/~szabafab/stein/

any Palm m100/500 series (others work too, but I'm not sure which) with a hot sync cable

and a OBD-II interface (T16-003);
http://www.multiplex-engineering.com/interfaces.htm



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Old 12-08-2005, 06:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
where can i get the logger cables and software? I would like to have one of these no matter which way i decide to go. I think i'm gonna get a fuel pump and get the reflash and then tune the SAFC2 after i get a logger. I have no money at the moment anyway, hopefully that changes after christmas.
Well, if you don't have any money, I'd suggest holding off on the flash, too. YOu don't really want to get it before you get your mods. You don't want a fuel pump without other mods either. I was just suggesting the fuel pump first on the assumption that you'd be doing all the other basic bolt-ons before the flash, too. You need TBE and MBC at least before the flash and fuel pump. Just doing a fuel pump and flash on a stock car is not the best idea, but the car will get faster. The problem is that if you get mods later, you'll have to pay for another flash.

I do agree that it's a good idea to fine tune on top of the flash with your S-AFC after getting your pocketlogger and reading the SAFC tuning tech guide on here. Remember that you'll need to buy a patch harness to splice the SAFC to so that you don't have to cut the stock ECU wires.





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Old 12-09-2005, 06:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I was waiting until after the holidays when I have some money. I already have a catback, Intake, BOV and MBC. The SAFC2 is already in the car and I installed it with the patch harness. Once i finish the exhaust I was going to do the Flash and pump at the same time. I'm on the way it's just getting the money together and getting the rest ordered, I also have my birthday coming up next month and I'm hoping some of my family members will give me some money. Thanks again for all the help and the advice. Thanks for the links to the Software and the cables!
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
I was waiting until after the holidays when I have some money. I already have a catback, Intake, BOV and MBC. The SAFC2 is already in the car and I installed it with the patch harness. Once i finish the exhaust I was going to do the Flash and pump at the same time. I'm on the way it's just getting the money together and getting the rest ordered, I also have my birthday coming up next month and I'm hoping some of my family members will give me some money. Thanks again for all the help and the advice. Thanks for the links to the Software and the cables!
Ok, then in you're in great shape. Your first order of business should be to complete the exhaust. You can get a 3" downpipe and 3" resonated testpipe from Megan for less than $250. There are also many other options out there, but don't spend $250-$350 on a downpipe for no reason. Once you have the exhaust completed, toss in the fuel pump and get the flash. At that point, you'll have 300whp/300wtq at least, and then you'll be able to start tinkering with the S-AFC. You will only need to make minor adjustments, but it will still help you to learn how everything works.





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Old 12-09-2005, 07:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Ok, then in you're in great shape. Your first order of business should be to complete the exhaust. You can get a 3" downpipe and 3" resonated testpipe from Megan for less than $250. There are also many other options out there, but don't spend $250-$350 on a downpipe for no reason. Once you have the exhaust completed, toss in the fuel pump and get the flash. At that point, you'll have 300whp/300wtq at least, and then you'll be able to start tinkering with the S-AFC. You will only need to make minor adjustments, but it will still help you to learn how everything works.

This is why i love this site! Everyone has great advice and are willing to help out! Thanks again for everything!
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
This is why i love this site! Everyone has great advice and are willing to help out! Thanks again for everything!
We just need more people who know a few things and are willing/able to help. Make sure to recommend people here, even if they are newbies who just need help. We aren't marred by vendor supremacy like other sites, so you're able to get great, unbiased (mostly) responses with NO BS attached. LudaChris runs a great site, and Turbolarry keeps things in order with an iron fist!





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Old 12-09-2005, 10:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
We just need more people who know a few things and are willing/able to help. Make sure to recommend people here, even if they are newbies who just need help. We aren't marred by vendor supremacy like other sites, so you're able to get great, unbiased (mostly) responses with NO BS attached. LudaChris runs a great site, and Turbolarry keeps things in order with an iron fist!

I was and am still a memeber of DSMtuners. I'm not the most knowledgable but I know the basis and I love learning about cars in general. i like to help in any way possible. I don't like some of the other sites for the evos. I have been there and there is too much going on, this site is wonderful and thank you Ludachris for running a awesome site!
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:01 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SicLanEvo
I was and am still a memeber of DSMtuners... i like to help in any way possible.
I don't like some of the other sites for the evos. I have been there and there is too much going on, this site is wonderful and thank you Ludachris for running a awesome site!

You know how we do it at tuners. All you have to to is respond and share information.
It's crazy going to some of these others sites coming from tuners. I owe everything I know to Ludachris and dsmtuners.



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