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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I needed to get some input on the water/ alky injection. Right now I have pretty moderate mods to my car, tbe, k&n panel filter, boost control, fuel pump. I have yet to purchase an afc which is next on my list to buy. I read that you can raise your boost level 1-3 psi and get rid of detonation with this kit, it is going for 165.00 for the 150psi kit shipped. I guess my question is do I have sufficent mods to run this kit or should I put that 165.00 towards my afc and then purchase the alky after?? Should I get cams before the alky kit??? Help peoples :confused:
 

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What kit did you find for 165? That's a really low price. Do you understand the possible dangers of a kit failing and do you trust this manufacturer? No, you don't have to get cams before alky, it's your preference. Cams will make a big difference on your 05, though. You can crank up your boost more than 1-3psi. With your mods I would go 26-27psi, BUT ONLY AFTER A TUNE! You have to get tuned after you install the kit and also if you get cams installed. If possible, maybe you can save some money by installing both first, then getting tuned. And, if you install cams, don't get up on it until you get tuned. Hope this helps
 

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Hmm, let's back up.

1) First of all, the only thing you should be worrying about right now is a TUNE. None of your mods are useful without a proper tune. I highly recommend NOT using an SAFC. It will cost more than a flash, make less power, have no features (launch control, raise rev limiter, remove fuel cut), and you'll have to pay someone again to tune it or purchase additional monitoring devices to tune it yourself (datalogger + wideband o2).

2) You shouldn't be worrying about alky until you've done all the bolt-ons. Do cams first along with an LICP and a flash, because those can be added with 100% safety and no hassle. With alky, you always have the possibility of alky failure, which can destroy your engine immediately, and you have to worry about re-filling every week or two.

3) Despite the above, _I_ use alky 24/7, but I do have all the major bolt-ons except for FMIC and IC piping. I also have a $500 SMC progressive kit. What kit is $165? I've never heard of one being that low, and 150psi is way too much. I'd bey afraid of any kit that costs $165, so be very careful. YOu also do NOT want to try to run alky with just an SAFC for tuning.

4) It's not just 1-3psi. You can go from 21-22psi on pump gas to max boost basically - as much as you want (30psi?). I run 26psi daily so that I'm not overworking my turbo constantly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Warrtalon said:
Hmm, let's back up.

1) First of all, the only thing you should be worrying about right now is a TUNE. None of your mods are useful without a proper tune. I highly recommend NOT using an SAFC. It will cost more than a flash, make less power, have no features (launch control, raise rev limiter, remove fuel cut), and you'll have to pay someone again to tune it or purchase additional monitoring devices to tune it yourself (datalogger + wideband o2).

2) You shouldn't be worrying about alky until you've done all the bolt-ons. Do cams first along with an LICP and a flash, because those can be added with 100% safety and no hassle. With alky, you always have the possibility of alky failure, which can destroy your engine immediately, and you have to worry about re-filling every week or two.

3) Despite the above, _I_ use alky 24/7, but I do have all the major bolt-ons except for FMIC and IC piping. I also have a $500 SMC progressive kit. What kit is $165? I've never heard of one being that low, and 150psi is way too much. I'd bey afraid of any kit that costs $165, so be very careful. YOu also do NOT want to try to run alky with just an SAFC for tuning.

4) It's not just 1-3psi. You can go from 21-22psi on pump gas to max boost basically - as much as you want (30psi?). I run 26psi daily so that I'm not overworking my turbo constantly.
The kit is being offered for that price for 5 orders. THere is a post in the vendor section on the home page if you want to check it out. I was just curious about the alky kit and what mods I needed to run it. My main focus right now is to make the most power with the mods I have. When you get a reflash how do you reset the computer?? Do I have to send back to have it reset?? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Warrtalon said:
What do you mean reset? You don't reset your computer - you have to get a full custom flash for alky. You cannot get a mail-in flash for alky - it is very dangerous and very complicated.
I was just curious about the alkey, I have no plans on buying that if it isnt going to do me any good. I only want to spend money on parts that are actually going make my car faster and stay reliable... I'm not one of those guys that goes out and wastes money on a noisey bov just to sound cool. :nono: What I mean by reset the computer is to get it back to stock form if I needed to for some reason (Smog since I live in socal/ warranty), what do I do. sorry if I wasnt clear the first time. do you know anyone located on the west coast that I can go to for the reflash?? I noticed I can have the revlimiter raised with the reflash, is it safe for me to do this with the mods I have and if so what is a safe redline to choose? Last question man.. this may be dumb one but if I send my computer to your reflash guy will he tune my computer for crappy 91 octane?? Thanks.
 

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ummmm...yeah, there are so many things that i could say right now but im going to go ahead and refrain from doing so for everyone's sake. but what i will say is that you do not want a flash. the only reason id advise a flash is if you want to change your rev limiter and thats it! you dont want to hassle with having to ship out your ecu back and forth and etc...and basically giving someone your hard earned money for an off-the-shelf flash that is NOT specifically for your car. you and i both know that every car is different and an off the shelf flash isnt gonna do it. steer clear from that please...not to mention who's doing it, jesus...so many horror stories come to mind.

anyhow...contrary to the above advise im going to suggest a different option, because the beauty of the evo community is diversity and the different directions you have with your car. from what it sounds like, youre not trying to go all out with engine management. get yourself an SAFC or ECU+ (i like ECU+ better because its ability to control timing) coupled with injectors and a fuel pump and get it tuned and youre good to go. atleast that'll be custom tuned for YOUR car. you'll have 2 maps on the afc and unlimited maps on ECU+
best thing to do would be to say screw it and learn how to tune yourself...its really not that hard. i learned everything i know from turbolarry and took off from there. you just need an understanding of how your car works (air/fuel).

lastly, i want to stress again to not go with a mail-in flash or a reflash at all. what are you going to do if something goes wrong?? are you gonna fly out to god knows where with your car or ship your ECU out while your car is down god knows where and wait for someone who you cant deal with to fix whatever they fked up??? wouldnt you rather deal with someone you can just call and make a half hour trip to get to...someone you can touch and see??

be careful brother!! and most importantly, its your car and have fun with her. if you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to ask

T
 

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i just realized i didnt even address your alky issue...sorry. my rant went on longer than usual.

keep your money for all your supporting mods first bro, dont waste your time on alky now. your mods are still very basic. complete your mod path first, then you can go on to greater things. and YES definately get cams first because that is where your greatest gains can be had, depending on your setup. good luck!

T
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
TheCloser said:
ummmm...yeah, there are so many things that i could say right now but im going to go ahead and refrain from doing so for everyone's sake. but what i will say is that you do not want a flash. the only reason id advise a flash is if you want to change your rev limiter and thats it! you dont want to hassle with having to ship out your ecu back and forth and etc...and basically giving someone your hard earned money for an off-the-shelf flash that is NOT specifically for your car. you and i both know that every car is different and an off the shelf flash isnt gonna do it. steer clear from that please...not to mention who's doing it, jesus...so many horror stories come to mind.

anyhow...contrary to the above advise im going to suggest a different option, because the beauty of the evo community is diversity and the different directions you have with your car. from what it sounds like, youre not trying to go all out with engine management. get yourself an SAFC or ECU+ (i like ECU+ better because its ability to control timing) coupled with injectors and a fuel pump and get it tuned and youre good to go. atleast that'll be custom tuned for YOUR car. you'll have 2 maps on the afc and unlimited maps on ECU+
best thing to do would be to say screw it and learn how to tune yourself...its really not that hard. i learned everything i know from turbolarry and took off from there. you just need an understanding of how your car works (air/fuel).

lastly, i want to stress again to not go with a mail-in flash or a reflash at all. what are you going to do if something goes wrong?? are you gonna fly out to god knows where with your car or ship your ECU out while your car is down god knows where and wait for someone who you cant deal with to fix whatever they fked up??? wouldnt you rather deal with someone you can just call and make a half hour trip to get to...someone you can touch and see??

be careful brother!! and most importantly, its your car and have fun with her. if you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to ask

T
First off thanks for your reply... I was looking for some input from someone that lives in my area.Road Race told me that same thing you did about the flash. This has been a constant debate with me about whether to get an afc or a flash. I already have a fuel pump that is just not on my list, I'm think I am going to spend a dayat road race and get an afc installed first things first. I do have some prior tuning expierence with and afc from when I had my eclipse :dsm: so maybe it is time to knock off the rust and start tuning myself again. Anyway, thanks again for your input guys it helped decide what I want to do. Hey closer where you located at in socal? The name is Ryan by the way.
 

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, Closer, these are some very disconcerting comments. I know there is a faction in SoCal who hates flashes, swears by SAFCs, and particularly dislikes Dynoflash, but these comments are definitely not warranted.

You make flashes sound like a plague of some sort, but they are _far_ and I mean _F A R_ superior to an SAFC. ECU+ is good, but that is way, way more expensive than a flash and still requires some very good tuning knowledge in order to properly tune. If not for its logging abilities, which are very good, it would now be completely obsolete with the release of EcuFlash, which is free flashing software.

Turbocrazy, do not let his comments jade you. There are thousands upon thousands upon THOUSANDS of flashed Evos in this country, and the crazy things the Closer referred to are extremely rare problems. I don't know what he means with all that stuff with flying god knows where and waiting god knows how long when things are messed up, because that's just not how it works. You can get a mail-in flash and be without your ECU for 2 days. You can get custom flashed in person if you are near a flash tuner, or if a flash tuner travels to your area. You can get an e-flash through the email and flash yourself. There's all sorts of options, all of which will be far superior AND CHEAPER than getting an SAFC. It would ESPECIALLY be a waste if you paid some shop to install your SAFC. If you plan to tune yourself, I sure hope you can install your own SAFC. It's far simpler to install than it is to tune. We have the write-ups for both right here on EvoTuners, but a flash will still be far superior in terms of tuning AND in terms of providing way more features.

I can speak to this strongly, because I am an SAFC user. I started with just an SAFC, then went to a base flash + SAFC, then a custom flash + SAFC for race gas only, and now a custom flash for alky with no need for the SAFC on a daily basis. However, since alky is not legal in SCCA, I turn it off, add race gas, then retune with the SAFC. I no longer will have to do that now that EcuFlash is available as freeware, but since I don't want to screw with all the custom tuning, I will let Dynoflash tune me for several maps (road racing, drag, daily driving, valet), then store the maps in my laptop and use them whenever the situtation arises.
 

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no disrespect to you Wartalon...BUT everyone has their opinions, right?? what i said stands and that is the SAFC or ECU+. if it was up to me i'd tell him to pick up a good standalone like the power fc or aem ems, but thats not what he's looking for. i understand there are thousands upon thousands of evos out there with flashes but MOST of those ppl have bad things to say when it comes to a specific vendor. all im saying is...as far as availability...how often is a tuner fly out to where youre at to flash or reflash?? not often. is it easy to fix a problem IF something does go wrong?? no its not. i dont know about you but im not comfortable with shipping my ECU out for an off the shelf flash that may or may not work correctly for my specific setup. the parameters on a shelf flash are guesses or estimations based on your mods, but everyone knows that EVERY car is different like i said before. i totally respect what you do and your preference of things, but i am totally against the flash, unless its for changing the rev limiter. to each his own i guess.

turbocrazy1...im located in the inland empire in corona...my name's Terrick. im on socalevo.net as well with the same screen name. let me know if you need anything bro!

T
 

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What are these problems you keep talking about? You make it sound like people get flashes then have problems all the time and need the tuner to fly out to fix it. No, that is EXTREMELY rare. You're also completely wrong when you say that "MOST of those ppl have bad things to say when it comes to a specific vendor." No, MOST people are completely elated that their car is now faster and smoother than ever for only $199. You discredit mail-in flashes way too much. They are still very good tunes. Yes, every car is different, but when you have enough experience with tons of cars all over the country, you can get the tune very close while still being very safe. When I first got flashed, it was a base flash, and it was still far superior to my own SAFC tuning. I went from 294whp/269wtq to 305whp/310wtq, then went right out and ran [email protected] There are people ALL OVER THE COUNTRY running low 12s on base flashes having spent barely $1000 in mods.

You don't have to like flashes, but it is not right for you to scare people into thinking flashes are so incredibly bad. Plus, you completely ignored the point I made several times that you can RECEIVE YOUR FLASHES THROUGH EMAIL and flash yourself whenever you want. You can also tune yourself with the same software with DIRECT CONTROL over both AFRs and timing, which is more than you can say for ECU+ or the SAFC. I can't see why anyone would advocate piggybacks when you can directly flash your own ECU for free without paying for an expensive device that is limited in its capability. Why would you rather have indirect control over timing and all other ECU parameters as opposed to direct control through free flashing software? That baffles me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Nice to meet you T. I'm located in Orange so let me know if you guys ever meet in the oc or corona so I can come meet some fellow DSMers :dsm: . I am the loan dsm guy with a bunch of friends that are honda lovers :thumbdown. They always hate because they spend sooo much in mods and still have no chance against the Evolution or my eclipse (when I had it)!!!! ROFL I'm not a member of socalevo.net yet but I'm gonna register. Laters!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Warrtalon said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Closer, these are some very disconcerting comments. I know there is a faction in SoCal who hates flashes, swears by SAFCs, and particularly dislikes Dynoflash, but these comments are definitely not warranted.

You make flashes sound like a plague of some sort, but they are _far_ and I mean _F A R_ superior to an SAFC. ECU+ is good, but that is way, way more expensive than a flash and still requires some very good tuning knowledge in order to properly tune. If not for its logging abilities, which are very good, it would now be completely obsolete with the release of EcuFlash, which is free flashing software.

Turbocrazy, do not let his comments jade you. There are thousands upon thousands upon THOUSANDS of flashed Evos in this country, and the crazy things the Closer referred to are extremely rare problems. I don't know what he means with all that stuff with flying god knows where and waiting god knows how long when things are messed up, because that's just not how it works. You can get a mail-in flash and be without your ECU for 2 days. You can get custom flashed in person if you are near a flash tuner, or if a flash tuner travels to your area. You can get an e-flash through the email and flash yourself. There's all sorts of options, all of which will be far superior AND CHEAPER than getting an SAFC. It would ESPECIALLY be a waste if you paid some shop to install your SAFC. If you plan to tune yourself, I sure hope you can install your own SAFC. It's far simpler to install than it is to tune. We have the write-ups for both right here on EvoTuners, but a flash will still be far superior in terms of tuning AND in terms of providing way more features.

I can speak to this strongly, because I am an SAFC user. I started with just an SAFC, then went to a base flash + SAFC, then a custom flash + SAFC for race gas only, and now a custom flash for alky with no need for the SAFC on a daily basis. However, since alky is not legal in SCCA, I turn it off, add race gas, then retune with the SAFC. I no longer will have to do that now that EcuFlash is available as freeware, but since I don't want to screw with all the custom tuning, I will let Dynoflash tune me for several maps (road racing, drag, daily driving, valet), then store the maps in my laptop and use them whenever the situtation arises.
Warr I'm not completly ruling out a reflash. Right now I want to get the car somewhere between 300- 325 whp and I want to do it in a way that is convienent to me. What I mean by that is that if want to be able get the car back to stock form if need be and it is a lot easier to unhook the afc that is plugged in by a jumper harness than having my computer reflashed to stock form. How do you do that with a reflash anyway????
 

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turbocrazy1 said:
Warr I'm not completly ruling out a reflash. Right now I want to get the car somewhere between 300- 325 whp and I want to do it in a way that is convienent to me. What I mean by that is that if want to be able get the car back to stock form if need be and it is a lot easier to unhook the afc that is plugged in by a jumper harness than having my computer reflashed to stock form. How do you do that with a reflash anyway????
I can flash my car back to stock faster than I can uninstall the SAFC. I do this with the $90 Tactrix flashing cable and the free flashing software from openecu.org. You just need to have your tuned map and your stock map (plus any other maps you need/want), then it takes seconds to write the map to the ECU.

Why do you need to go back to stock form, though? The flash is not detectable on 03-04s, if you're worried about the dealer. On 05-06s, it is technically detectable, but I have yet to discover a case where a dealer actually knew how to and then found that an ECU was flashed leading to a warranty denial. Even if they know how and can find that the ECU was flashed, they have no idea WHAT was changed. They can only tell that something has been altered. Like I said, though, I've yet to read of this ever happening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks man, that pretty much answers my question. Also I found someone through the guys at Road Race that has been reflashing computers here in socal and that would be awesome to not have to send my computer across the country. Can I get the info for your reflash guy just in case?
 

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It's Dynoflash (dynoflash.com). He is the only one who does e-flashes and multiple maps. You never have to send your ECU in the mail if you don't want to.

I wouldn't there's some "guy" that reflashes computers in SoCal. It would have to be a big flash vendor who has spent thousands on the TechTom or EcuTek software (Works, Vishnu, etc.). I wouldn't rely on some random guy to do it...
 

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I would trust Scott Gray, but I thought he was just the SAFC tuner. It would be quite ironic if he's now using EcuFlash after all the hatred and venom that has been spewed by people in that area and that swear by his SAFC tuning, but if he is doing it, then by all means take that route. Closer was saying NOT to use a flash, so I didn't know Scott had switched.
 

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Out here the idea is to use ECUflash in conjuction with the S-AFC. Clean up the stock maps, adjust the limits, and continue using it to fine tune larger injectors with full timing control. :thumb: ... and with the S-AFC II; easy switch to high octane.
 
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