You need to go all the way to 7500. 6500 is just when the HP starts to peak. Also, you're already very rich as expected, but adding a fuel pump untuned will make richer than rich. Be sure you're getting a tune when you add those parts.
Check this log Out....Stock EVO....
Here's my Log of my stock 05 EvO8.
2699 28 0.50
2785 28 0.84
2883 18 0.90
3016 16 0.92
3148 14 0.92
3289 9 0.92
3457 8 0.92
3633 8 0.92
3828 7 0.94
4043 5 0.94
4234 5 0.94
4441 8 0.94
4637 9 0.94
4816 9 0.94
5039 9 0.94
5199 7 0.96
5371 8 0.96
5535 8 0.96
5723 8 0.96
5875 9 0.96
6020 10 0.96
6184 12 0.96
6320 13 0.96
6465 13 0.96
6609 15 0.96
6504 16 0.96
6016 38 0.88
This was done with My OBDII POCKETLOGGER ver. 2.0
Walbro 255, MBC, and BOOST Guage is going in next week. and Just installed an RNR 3inchturboback.:dsm:
2699 28 0.50
2785 28 0.84
2883 18 0.90
3016 16 0.92
3148 14 0.92
3289 9 0.92
3457 8 0.92
3633 8 0.92
3828 7 0.94
4043 5 0.94
4234 5 0.94
4441 8 0.94
4637 9 0.94
4816 9 0.94
5039 9 0.94
5199 7 0.96
5371 8 0.96
5535 8 0.96
5723 8 0.96
5875 9 0.96
6020 10 0.96
6184 12 0.96
6320 13 0.96
6465 13 0.96
6609 15 0.96
6504 16 0.96
6016 38 0.88
This was done with My OBDII POCKETLOGGER ver. 2.0
Walbro 255, MBC, and BOOST Guage is going in next week. and Just installed an RNR 3inchturboback.:dsm:
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Under 3200rpms and past 6500 on your log is worthless as you are not WOT.
You need a wideband and fuel controller to take over your tune.
You need a wideband and fuel controller to take over your tune.
so we are looking at RPM, timing(?) and TPS (?) ?
I have never seen the stock system before. IF that is timing, wow, is that cali gas?
Warrtalon are you seeing something, or do you just know from experience that the car is rich?
I have never seen the stock system before. IF that is timing, wow, is that cali gas?
Warrtalon are you seeing something, or do you just know from experience that the car is rich?
It's RPM, timing, and O2 voltage, which is narrowband AFRs.nothere said:so we are looking at RPM, timing(?) and TPS (?) ?
I have never seen the stock system before. IF that is timing, wow, is that cali gas?
Warrtalon are you seeing something, or do you just know from experience that the car is rich?
I know from both experience and the log that he's running rich. Stock, we run deep into the 10s and sometimes into the 9s above 6000rpm. .96 is quite rich, but it's not as reliable as a wideband O2 when tuning.
thanks for the clue Warrtalon.
Do you often see five degrees timing?
Do you often see five degrees timing?
No, I never see below 7-8* of timing because of the flash. It keeps timing right at 8* through the peak torque area.nothere said:thanks for the clue Warrtalon.
Do you often see five degrees timing?
However, when I had ONLY an S-AFC for tuning, my timing would drop all the way to 0 at peak torque, which also resulted in much lower peak torque along with much less area beneath the curve. My pre-flash dyno results were 294whp/269wtq. I'm quite certain that after my flash, I'm closer to 300whp/300wtq, but I won't have exact proof until Jan 14th at my next Dyno Day. What I do know is that I ran [email protected] on this setup on 93oct, so it's unlikely I'm below 300...
mbc, boost guage installed....
ROFL Hello tuners. just got the MBC and Boostguage installed. Boost set at 21psi. Cruised the car around for a little bit and went WOT on 3rd. Pulls like a maniac. Boost did not taper. Still waiting on the Walbro coz when the first one was installed it was a Faulty fuel pump so we put the stock one back in. A new walbro is on order along with the Aem Wideband. Still saving for the SAFC. I wont plan on boosting any higher than 21psi until I get an SAFC. It used to taper at 5500rpm now its solid up top. Big difference. I will pocketlog it sometime this week to compare to the earlier Log posted on this thread.:thumb: so stby for more.....
ROFL Hello tuners. just got the MBC and Boostguage installed. Boost set at 21psi. Cruised the car around for a little bit and went WOT on 3rd. Pulls like a maniac. Boost did not taper. Still waiting on the Walbro coz when the first one was installed it was a Faulty fuel pump so we put the stock one back in. A new walbro is on order along with the Aem Wideband. Still saving for the SAFC. I wont plan on boosting any higher than 21psi until I get an SAFC. It used to taper at 5500rpm now its solid up top. Big difference. I will pocketlog it sometime this week to compare to the earlier Log posted on this thread.:thumb: so stby for more.....
Just 2 things:evo8kiko said:ROFL Hello tuners. just got the MBC and Boostguage installed. Boost set at 21psi. Cruised the car around for a little bit and went WOT on 3rd. Pulls like a maniac. Boost did not taper. Still waiting on the Walbro coz when the first one was installed it was a Faulty fuel pump so we put the stock one back in. A new walbro is on order along with the Aem Wideband. Still saving for the SAFC. I wont plan on boosting any higher than 21psi until I get an SAFC. It used to taper at 5500rpm now its solid up top. Big difference. I will pocketlog it sometime this week to compare to the earlier Log posted on this thread.:thumb: so stby for more.....
1) The stock turbo will ALWAYS taper if you're running 20psi or more. It simply cannot hold that much boost at high rpm. If you mean it holds that boost to 5500rpm, that's fine. But we refer to "taper" as the boost falling off by redline (7k rpm) and beyond (7500rpm). For example, mine spikes to 22psi at peak boost (3600-3800rpm), holds 20-21psi to redline, then falls to 19psi by 7500. That's with a strong MBC and strong BOV.
2) Getting an S-AFC won't allow you to run more boost. Those are independent factors. What allows you to run more than 21-22psi is octane. You have to have enough knock resistance (race gas or alcohol injection) to run higher boost without knocking.
Getting a wideband, SAFC, and logger, is an OK way to go about tuning, but it will still fall short of a flash. You should at least think about getting flashed unless you're just intent on doing it all yourself. I did it this way and had fun...I was also very successful at the drag strip, but now that I'm flashed and just use the SAFC for fine tuning (mostly for race gas at the track), my car is much more beastly and fun to drive.
Warrtalon said:Just 2 things:
1) The stock turbo will ALWAYS taper if you're running 20psi or more. It simply cannot hold that much boost at high rpm. If you mean it holds that boost to 5500rpm, that's fine. But we refer to "taper" as the boost falling off by redline (7k rpm) and beyond (7500rpm). For example, mine spikes to 22psi at peak boost (3600-3800rpm), holds 20-21psi to redline, then falls to 19psi by 7500. That's with a strong MBC and strong BOV.
2) Getting an S-AFC won't allow you to run more boost. Those are independent factors. What allows you to run more than 21-22psi is octane. You have to have enough knock resistance (race gas or alcohol injection) to run higher boost without knocking.
Getting a wideband, SAFC, and logger, is an OK way to go about tuning, but it will still fall short of a flash. IT WOULD BE NICE TO GET A FLASH, BUT WILL A FLASH ALWAYS BE PERFECT? I AM HAPPY WITH TUNING WITH AFC, POCKETLOGGER, WATCHING THE TIMING, AND WIDEBAND. You should at least think about getting flashed unless you're just intent on doing it all yourself. {I though of a flash and it takes all the fun out of tuning. Maybe, when I hit the lotto or win big in a casino, then I'll go for the flash, or even an aem ems. I'm just out to have fun. Just alittle of encouragement here.} I did it this way and had fun...I was also very successful at the drag strip, but now that I'm flashed and just use the SAFC for fine tuning (mostly for race gas at the track), my car is much more beastly and fun to drive.
Well good for you. Just got back now and Yes I am holding 20-21 psi all the way to 7k. Thats what the Guage indicates. And yes, it would spike to 22 and then by 6k it would taper to 20. HOW MUCH DIFFERENT IS THE O4 AND O5 ANYWAYs. I'll show the logs tomorrow. and pls just alittle constructive advice from the gurus are welcome. As for the FAct going with the AFC, I used it in my earlier gst and was also successfull. Yeah it was a bitch to Dial in 660cc and Walbro fuel pump, But I think it will be easier with an EVo. And yes, I do all my tuning my self. Also just to be safe I dropped the boost to 20 and it only taper's down to 19psi all the way to 7k.---maybe its the advantage of the 05's....
04s have the smaller 9.8 hotside while our 05s have the larger 10.5 hotside. You said there was no taper initially, but there is taper. You spike to 22, then it drops to 20. It probably then drops to 19 by 7500. This is exactly what my boost does, but that is considered taper. You were just excited not to see that immediate taper that occurs when the BCS is in control and almost immediately lowering the boost to 17psi early in the powerband. Yes, the MBC removes a ton of the taper, but we are unable to hit one boost level and hold it flat all the way to 7500rpm, at least not on the stock turbo.
Yes, I see why you are going with the SAFC, but we did not have flashes on our DSMs. I used this same SAFC on all 3 of my 1Gs, and all 3 of them went 12.5 or faster on turbos all smaller than the Evo's 16G6. I naturally carried the SAFC over to my Evo, but it took me about a year to understand the superiority of a flash. For only $199, you really can't beat it. As I said, with a base Dynoflash, I was able to get all the nice features that come with it (fuel cut removal, raised rev limit, top speed limiter removal, 2-step launch control set at any rpm, direct AFR control, and direct timing control, and idle control). Additionally, the flash gives around 25-30 more peak torque, which means it also provides much more area under the power curve. The difference in low-end/mid-range torque is substantial. The flash will always be good, because they are left with built-in safety margins. This is where you can take the SAFC and fine-tune on top of it for changing weather conditions, or for race gas like I often do.
Using this method, I ran 12.26 on pump gas in my Evo with less than $1000 spent and then ran 12.000 with race gas, 24psi, and tuning by the SAFC on top of the flash.
Btw, there's no reason for you not to keep your boost where it was as long as your on 93oct or better. We can do that all day long, especially on the factory rich tune like you have right now.
Yes, I see why you are going with the SAFC, but we did not have flashes on our DSMs. I used this same SAFC on all 3 of my 1Gs, and all 3 of them went 12.5 or faster on turbos all smaller than the Evo's 16G6. I naturally carried the SAFC over to my Evo, but it took me about a year to understand the superiority of a flash. For only $199, you really can't beat it. As I said, with a base Dynoflash, I was able to get all the nice features that come with it (fuel cut removal, raised rev limit, top speed limiter removal, 2-step launch control set at any rpm, direct AFR control, and direct timing control, and idle control). Additionally, the flash gives around 25-30 more peak torque, which means it also provides much more area under the power curve. The difference in low-end/mid-range torque is substantial. The flash will always be good, because they are left with built-in safety margins. This is where you can take the SAFC and fine-tune on top of it for changing weather conditions, or for race gas like I often do.
Using this method, I ran 12.26 on pump gas in my Evo with less than $1000 spent and then ran 12.000 with race gas, 24psi, and tuning by the SAFC on top of the flash.
Btw, there's no reason for you not to keep your boost where it was as long as your on 93oct or better. We can do that all day long, especially on the factory rich tune like you have right now.
who did you talk to over at DYnoFlash? How do I get started? If it is only $199 how long does the process take? What are the steps of Getting a flash? I am new to this. Sorry for the million Questions. If it makes life easier than the afc then I can roll with that.
Oh yeah one more thing. Since I have a MBC and stock Boost solenoid is plugged. Will that affect the Flash?
As you can see, I'm sponsored by Dynoflash and that is because I believe in his product, and he believes in my ability to properly represent his product while achieving great times at the track. The main guy is Al, so that is who you would talk to. There are two ways to go about getting flashed from Al:evo8kiko said:who did you talk to over at DYnoFlash? How do I get started? If it is only $199 how long does the process take? What are the steps of Getting a flash? I am new to this. Sorry for the million Questions. If it makes life easier than the afc then I can roll with that.
1) Remove your ECU, FedEx it overnight to Dynoflash in Connecticut with your list of mods, your octane, and your preferred boost level. He flashes your ECU according to your listed parameters, then overnights it back to you. He has hundreds of files of different combinations of mods so that he can accommodate any setup. You re-install the ECU, and bham...it all works. This is called a "base" flash or a mail-in flash. This is the one that costs $199 on VIIIs, but $299 on IXs.
2) Al comes to your area and provides a full custom road tune. This costs more ($375-400), but it provides you an awesome tune that is perfectly-suited for your car and the conditions within which you drive. Al travels all over the country doing tuning trips like this. He is coming to my area in 2 weeks and will be custom tuning me again after the addition of my Buschur ported/coated turbine/manifold/o2 and my new SMC alky kit. I know that Al is coming to LA on the weekend of the 21st/22nd, but I don't know if that's too far for you or not. Last I checked, he still had _ONE_ slot remaining for custom tunes, so if you were interested, you might be able to get it. Otherwise, you would still be able to drive there and have him provide you a base flash in person so that you don't have to ship your ECU.
That's how it all works. To get the exact details of the mail-in flash instructions, go here:
http://www.dynoflash.com/indttm.htm
No, it will not. If you did not have an MBC, the flash would be able to control boost for you by setting it at 21psi and removing the stock boost taper (like an MBC), but it would not leave boost control up to you. With an MBC, you have full control of your boost, and as long as the BCS is still plugged in but capped off, then you'll be fine - the flash will not be affected.evo8kiko said:Oh yeah one more thing. Since I have a MBC and stock Boost solenoid is plugged. Will that affect the Flash?
after walbro intstall....19psi on 91 pump
Just alittle chicken shit when it comes to pulling all the way to 7,500. Dont wanna mess anything up.
RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1 <---------------1st PULL after a Cruising around WARMUP
2863 41 0.02
3027 43 0.88
2957 29 0.86
2984 24 0.86
3039 21 0.88
3125 18 0.9
3215 16 0.92
3301 12 0.92
3410 9 0.92
3512 8 0.92
3633 6 0.92
3750 4 0.94
3883 7 0.94
4020 8 0.92
4168 7 0.92
4297 7 0.94
4426 8 0.94
4547 8 0.94
4684 6 0.94
4801 7 0.94
4941 7 0.94
5070 8 0.94
5199 6 0.94
5293 6 0.94
5391 5 0.94
5484 5 0.94
5590 6 0.96
5695 7 0.96
5809 8 0.96
5902 9 0.96
6000 10 0.96
6113 10 0.96
6207 11 0.96
6320 12 0.96
6410 12 0.96
6504 14 0.96
6598 14 0.96
6684 15 0.96
6770 15 0.96
6867 16 0.96
6930 18 0.96
7008 18 0.96
7090 18 0.98
7156 18 0.98
7227 18 0.98
7309 18 0.98
7375 19 0.98
10-15MINS LATER 2ND PULL RIGHT HERE
RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1
2980 9 0.92
3082 7 0.92
3188 6 0.92
3305 4 0.92
3422 2 0.92
3547 2 0.94
3668 4 0.94
3805 6 0.94
3934 7 0.94
4063 7 0.94
4172 6 0.94
4320 5 0.94
4438 6 0.94
4555 7 0.94
4680 6 0.94
4820 6 0.94
4934 7 0.94
5047 8 0.94
5176 8 0.94
5285 8 0.96
5422 8 0.96
5516 8 0.96
5625 8 0.96
5746 10 0.96
5879 10 0.96
5953 12 0.96
6082 13 0.96
6188 12 0.96
6281 14 0.96
6359 15 0.96
6465 13 0.96
6551 13 0.96
6633 13 0.96
6715 14 0.96
6801 15 0.96
6895 16 0.98
6977 16 0.98
7063 18 0.98
7137 17 0.98
7203 18 0.98
7289 18 0.98
7324 19 0.98
i AM still waiting on a UEGO Wideband and SAFC. AS for right now. I'll just keep the boost were its at and I really dont wanna mess up a $36k car.
Just alittle chicken shit when it comes to pulling all the way to 7,500. Dont wanna mess anything up.
RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1 <---------------1st PULL after a Cruising around WARMUP
2863 41 0.02
3027 43 0.88
2957 29 0.86
2984 24 0.86
3039 21 0.88
3125 18 0.9
3215 16 0.92
3301 12 0.92
3410 9 0.92
3512 8 0.92
3633 6 0.92
3750 4 0.94
3883 7 0.94
4020 8 0.92
4168 7 0.92
4297 7 0.94
4426 8 0.94
4547 8 0.94
4684 6 0.94
4801 7 0.94
4941 7 0.94
5070 8 0.94
5199 6 0.94
5293 6 0.94
5391 5 0.94
5484 5 0.94
5590 6 0.96
5695 7 0.96
5809 8 0.96
5902 9 0.96
6000 10 0.96
6113 10 0.96
6207 11 0.96
6320 12 0.96
6410 12 0.96
6504 14 0.96
6598 14 0.96
6684 15 0.96
6770 15 0.96
6867 16 0.96
6930 18 0.96
7008 18 0.96
7090 18 0.98
7156 18 0.98
7227 18 0.98
7309 18 0.98
7375 19 0.98
10-15MINS LATER 2ND PULL RIGHT HERE
RPM Timing O2 1 Bank 1
2980 9 0.92
3082 7 0.92
3188 6 0.92
3305 4 0.92
3422 2 0.92
3547 2 0.94
3668 4 0.94
3805 6 0.94
3934 7 0.94
4063 7 0.94
4172 6 0.94
4320 5 0.94
4438 6 0.94
4555 7 0.94
4680 6 0.94
4820 6 0.94
4934 7 0.94
5047 8 0.94
5176 8 0.94
5285 8 0.96
5422 8 0.96
5516 8 0.96
5625 8 0.96
5746 10 0.96
5879 10 0.96
5953 12 0.96
6082 13 0.96
6188 12 0.96
6281 14 0.96
6359 15 0.96
6465 13 0.96
6551 13 0.96
6633 13 0.96
6715 14 0.96
6801 15 0.96
6895 16 0.98
6977 16 0.98
7063 18 0.98
7137 17 0.98
7203 18 0.98
7289 18 0.98
7324 19 0.98
i AM still waiting on a UEGO Wideband and SAFC. AS for right now. I'll just keep the boost were its at and I really dont wanna mess up a $36k car.
At 20-21 psi. your not going to mess anything up. From the logs, you do have some tuning to do; the timing going up and down between 3500 to 5400 and going rich from 5600 up. Some injector to go along with the AFC will work wonders.
do you still think that I can work around stock injectors w/ an afc? I'm sure I can lean it out some more. Can you tell I'm knocking just by looking at the timing curve?
You can never completely work around the stock injectors using an S-AFC unless you use race gas or alky. You need something that allows you to pull out significant amounts of fuel (mainly in the peak torque/mid-range), so that you can get the AFRs AND timing you need in order to make both great TQ and HP. With stock injectors on pump gas, you can make good HP, but you can't make good TQ. I've been through all that and been very successful, but in the end, you just have to decide on a flash or injectors. Frankly, I am not fond of having to mess with the stock injectors when they are plenty big for the stock turbo all the way up to 400whp, but there are many people (mainly in SoCal) who prefer that route almost to the point of stubbornness.
What I did after I finally gave in and got a flash was use the SAFC to fine-tune on a daily basis while also using it to tune for race gas at the track. This is a great method and works wonderfully, because you get the best of both worlds. You get the extra flash features (2-step launch control, raised rev limiter, removed fuel cut, idle speed control, and topspeed limiter removal), the awesome peak torque with broader torque curve, and the fine-tuning ability for changing conditions and octane.
Yes, your timing fluctuations indicate knock, and you are rich from 4300-5400 then rich as hell after 5400. Wait until you have the wideband before you lean it out, though. I'm not fond of the Uego, because it doesn't read below 11.0:1, which is kind of important, especially for you right now, haha. If they have changed it, then disregard...
What I did after I finally gave in and got a flash was use the SAFC to fine-tune on a daily basis while also using it to tune for race gas at the track. This is a great method and works wonderfully, because you get the best of both worlds. You get the extra flash features (2-step launch control, raised rev limiter, removed fuel cut, idle speed control, and topspeed limiter removal), the awesome peak torque with broader torque curve, and the fine-tuning ability for changing conditions and octane.
Yes, your timing fluctuations indicate knock, and you are rich from 4300-5400 then rich as hell after 5400. Wait until you have the wideband before you lean it out, though. I'm not fond of the Uego, because it doesn't read below 11.0:1, which is kind of important, especially for you right now, haha. If they have changed it, then disregard...
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
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