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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been planning out my upgrade path for when the car comes out again in April, reading as much as I can on the various Evo forums and such, but I did come up with a question I'd like to get some advice on:

Is it better to get a custom dyno tune for basic mods, or would a flash be just as good?

The reason I ask is that I'm only about 2 1/2 hours from Buschur, so I was going to try to do something along the lines of the Warrtalon package; but since I wasn't sure if the Autometer Boost Gauge would be worth it (I already have the stock one in the MR, and down the road I was planning on getting a nice set of basic gauges anyway), I was thinking maybe seeing if I can work out some way to drop that and the mail in flash, and just go with a dyno tune at their shop instead.

I'll have a few more bits I'll have picked up before than (Buschur LICP and Walboro 255 fuel pump would be the only ones affected by this, I believe), so would adding these to the TBE and MBC be worth trying to get a custom dyno/road tune done, or at this level would a flash work out just as well? My first reaction would be to go with the custom tune, but I'd like to hear what others with more experience than myself have to say.

Thanks in advance!
 

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I should be able to answer most of this:

1) The first mistake is thinking that a dyno tune and a flash are mutually exclusive, because they are not. A dyno tune means nothing in and of itself other than you get tuned on the dyno...but with what? With a flash? Well, then you have a dyno tuned flash, right? You can get flashed through the mail, on a dyno, through email, on the street, at the track, wherever. You can get tuned by any tuning device on a dyno, including with a flash. So, you don't need to refer to them separately. I guess what you mean to ask is would a base flash be as good as a custom flash. The answer is always "no." A custom tune is ALWAYS best, but a base flash is still very good. It all depends on how much you want to spend and the availability of custom tuning.

2) Your stock gauge is fine (I have one, too), but it doesn't go high enough even for the boost you'll be running on pump gas after mods/tuning. It maxes at 21.75psi, and you will be running over 22psi. IXs can run 23-24psi on pump gas without knock thanks to the improved turbo and head (no, no the MIVEC, but the coolant passages that reduce knock). So, you will need a gauge that reads higher. However, if you want some uber gauges later, then how about getting the package and just selling the gauge. David Buschur won't negotiate on the packages, because discounts are built in, and it already includes free shipping. You still save more by getting the package and either using or selling the gauge.

3) You can still get a custom flash even if you get the WT package. What happens is you pay normal price to Buschur, but instead of sending your ECU for the base flash, you wait for Dynoflash to come to Buschur and get yourself scheduled for a custom tune. The way it works is as long as you haven't already sent in for the included base flash, then you just pay an extra $200 to Dynoflash for the custom flash. If you want it on the dyno, that will cost even more, though, because you have to pay Buschur for dyno time. Remember that Buschur doesn't do the flashes they sell - they are teamed up with Dynoflash who does all the flashes, so even if you want a custom dyno tuned flash at Buschur, it needs to be scheduled when Dynoflash is at the shop, which he does once a month.

4) Again, at the end, you ask if a flash is as good as a dyno/road tune as if a flash is NOT also a dyno/road tune. A flash does not mean it's automatically generic - a flash is just a form of tuning that can be performed in many ways, custom or not. Those mods will be worthy of a custom tune if you want to pay extra and maximize your mods, but a base flash will also work quite well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for answering a lot of my questions Warrtalon, as well as giving me some additional things I didn't realize (for example, I was unaware that Buschur didn't do their own flashes).

I'll take your advice and just go with the Buschur/Warrtalon package for now (seems to be one of the best "bang-for-the-buck" out there), and pay the extra to have a custom dyno/road flash done by Dynoflash. Would you happen to know about how far in advance I should schedule something like this? As I said, the car is in winter storage until sometime in April, so I figured calling Buschur in February to get everything set up would be the best bet, but I really have no idea on how busy the shop is.

Again, thanks for all the help! I'm really looking forward to seeing how well the car responds to the modifications, as well as getting it down to Beaver Run for some track time over the Summer (unfortunately, I didn't have the opportunity of doing this past year).
 

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Ah, too bad, in storage until April?! I wouldn't be able to handle that on such an expensive car - I drive mine daily even in the Colorado winter. I just love the thing. Anyway, no need to be hasty on scheduling. When you're about ready to order the package, find out when Al (Dynoflash) is scheduled to be at Buschur next (like I said, usually he goes once a month for tuning), then be sure to order your stuff well enough in advance to recieve it and install it. An even easier thing would be to order it all and get it installed at Buschur, then get tuned. That would knock all the birds out with one stone, but that's only if you didn't plan to do all the installs yourself and if you don't mind making a day of it. The good thing is that you have options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's tough sometimes - but since I get cars from my employer to drive, I don't need to put it through the winters here, and all the road salt, sand, etc. that comes with it.

Plus, it also saves on insurance, the additional cost of winter wheels/tires, etc., so it's not all bad!

Also, I had briefly considered having Buschur do all the installation, since I've never really wrenched on a car before, but I figure this is as good a way as any to learn. I spend a lot of time on the various Evo forums reading and researching all I can, plus, my wife's father has a lot of experience working on cars so it's not like I'll be going at it without any guidance. And if worse comes to worse, I work at a dealership with 3 stores so I have the mechanics here if things get really tough.

Thanks again for all the help!
 

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I'm a terrible mechanic despite 8 years of doing this with DSMs and Evos, but I still managed to do all those mods in the WT package (among others), so I'm sure you can figure it out. The exhaust doesn't even require instructions really, but it comes with detailed instructions anyway. For the MBC and gauge, there are good write-ups for those that you can use as guides. If we don't have any here, then I need to get to work...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The stuff in the Buschur/Warrtalon package doesn't seem too bad, and the rest of the things I'll have waiting for the car when Spring rolls around shouldn't be that difficult either (Buschur LICP, Walboro 255 fuel pump, Buschur shifter bushings, Stoptech SS brake lines, Buschur SS clutch line, and maybe an Odyssey mini-battery), so I should be able to stumble my way through it.

It's when it comes time for doing cams, meth injection, larger turbo, new clutch etc. that things might get a little bit tricky...

Not to mention if I end up going with an upgraded suspension somewhere down the line!

Ah well... these things are in the future, so hopefully I won't have to worry about them for a while yet.
 

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2) Your stock gauge is fine (I have one, too), but it doesn't go high enough even for the boost you'll be running on pump gas after mods/tuning. It maxes at 21.75psi, and you will be running over 22psi. IXs can run 23-24psi on pump gas without knock thanks to the improved turbo and head (no, no the MIVEC, but the coolant passages that reduce knock). So, you will need a gauge that reads higher. However, if you want some uber gauges later, then how about getting the package and just selling the gauge. David Buschur won't negotiate on the packages, because discounts are built in, and it already includes free shipping. You still save more by getting the package and either using or selling the gauge.
Warrtalon, you mentioned that the head of the MIVEC block has coolant passages that reduce knock. Would it be possible to swop the IX head to an VIII block?
 

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Warrtalon, you mentioned that the head of the MIVEC block has coolant passages that reduce knock. Would it be possible to swop the IX head to an VIII block?
It is possible and has been done in the past. If you want the MIVEC to function you have to do an ECU swap as well.

Keith
 

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Warrtalon, if Geese1's car wasn't in storage and he had EvoScan, could he just log the car and mail the data to Al?? Then either send him the ECU or use ECUflash to load the new flash into his car?
 

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Yes, as Keith said, it's possible and has been done, but I'd like to add that the cost is great, considering you need a IX ECU and such.
hmm. Are you saying that with a MIVEC head, an ECU from a IX.... what else do I need? This sounds really tempting....
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, you usually start with a base e-flash, then with that flash in the system, you get some logs and send them back so that the original e-flash can be tweaked. Works pretty well that way.

This would not be in place of having them do a dyno/road tune though, would it, but a good addition to the custom work to allow you to tweak it for optimum performance for your particular needs/situation?

So if I'm understanding this correctly (which I might not be, as I only just went and read up on this after seeing some of these responses so I could be way off base here), I could have Dynoflash do the tune in person, then if I have this ECUflash software and cable I could play around with the settings as I saw fit?

This could then be used if different mods are added in the future rather than having another road/dyno flash done?

BTW, I don't know how much I'd play with this myself, as I don't know the slightest thing about tuning and would end up setting the car on fire or something, but it does sound like a nice way to keep the car's ECU updated as mods are added without constantly going through the expense of having a full hands-on tune/flash done (although that might still be desirable after more major modifications are added?).
 

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Two things:

1) What we were talking about was it being your main tune in the event you don't want to or don't have access to a full custom tune in person. People get eflashes now to save money and time, and with the virtual tuning, you can get a tune that's better than a regular base flash but maybe still not quite as good as an in-person dyno or road tune

2) Yes, you can get your custom tune, then get the free software and tweak it to your heart's content when adding mods, if you are comfortable with tuning the high/low fuel and timing tables. There are some simple features that you can change with no knowledge of tuning, such as your launch control rpm, rev limiter, etc.
 
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