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Discussion Starter #1
05 Evo MR w/catback, mbc, S-AFC II


After some days of tunning, I ended up with these, I think they are alright, what do you guys think??

The highest setting on the SAFC II was -7% pretty conservative

Im still waiting for egt gauge.

what do you guys think??

last run

RPM TIM 02
3078 7 .90
3156 6 .92
3296 5 .92
3371 3 .92
3519 1 .94
3683 3 .94
3769 4 .94
3925 3 .94
4074 4 .94
4207 5 .94
4351 5 .94
4476 6 .94
4625 6 .94
4753 7 .94
4886 7 .94
5027 8 .94
5175 8 .94
5273 8 .94
5410 8 .94
5515 8 .94
5652 8 .94
5785 9 .94
5910 10 .96
6015 13 .96
6128 13 .94
6234 14 .94
6351 14 .96
6460 16 .96
6578 16 .96
6683 17 .96
6769 17 .96
6867 19 .96
6984 19 .96
7070 21 .96
7148 21 .96
7226 22 .96
7308 22 .96
7410 22 .96
 

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Are you using a S-AFC? If so, try lean it out a little (-2%) at 5800-6000 and from 6200 on up. See if it gets the O2 values straight across with no timing being pulled. What octane is this on? Maybe add a touch between 5400-5600 if it keeps holding the timing in that spot. :thumb:
Ya, the EGT would be for safety, especially since you have a logger. But it's easier to look over at the gauge to see if something wrong than look at a logger.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for the input,
I'm using S-AFC II this is on 93

Ill take that into considerration, I dont know if its good to lean it out more on top since I dont have wideband or EGT , I think I should wait for at least the EGT to be installed.
 

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evo mr fu said:
why is EGT a waste?

it acts as a saftey precaution isn't that good enough.
Tell me how?

P.S. I have run up to 1025C*. What have we learned?

EGT does not matter unless you are a sustained road racer. WOT 25+min.

Boost, Ign Timing, A/F, Octane are what matter.

I don't want to come off like a prick, but if you are not going to listen to the fastest and quickest Evo on the forum, who are you going to learn from? No one has ever touched my car but me, not even the dealer. I'm sure Warrtalon can identify with my frustration.
 

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evo mr fu said:
I dont know if its good to lean it out more on top since I dont have wideband or EGT , I think I should wait for at least the EGT to be installed.

You can still bring it down a little with just the logger. Watch the timing for signs of knock/pulled timing. That will show up before any damage or dangerous lean conditions.. I wish I had 93 at the pump. :thumb:
 

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Guess I need to update my time slip, so you can take advice from the fastest (but not quickest....yet) EVO on the forum!

Keith

PS: I will get the new slip scanned eventually.

PPS: My times are on pump gas with a bit of alcohol injection :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
DSM95Hybrid said:
Tell me how?

P.S. I have run up to 1025C*. What have we learned?

I don't want to come off like a prick, but if you are not going to listen to the fastest and quickest Evo on the forum, who are you going to learn from? No one has ever touched my car but me, not even the dealer. I'm sure Warrtalon can identify with my frustration.
wow, most say keep it under 900C, I dont know if 1025C is good, I assume if your car is fine doing that then good for you.

You dont want to sound like a prick, but you kinda really sound like one by making that "quickest Evo" comment. You might know more then me, or have a faster Evo then me, but there are ways of expressing it with out being a "prick"
 

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Fourdoor said:
Guess I need to update my time slip, so you can take advice from the fastest (but not quickest....yet) EVO on the forum!

Keith

PS: I will get the new slip scanned eventually.

PPS: My times are on pump gas with a bit of alcohol injection :)
Currently Buschur Racing Stage 4+++ (stage 4 plus cam gears, sheet metal intake, 272 HKS cams, AEM EMS, and GT35R turbo upgrade)
I would hope you could hit 119 mph with your mod list. A client of mine ProccoEvo is doing 140.xxmph with that turbo to contrast.

Me and my factory ECU, stock clutch, stock injectors, stock intake manifold, stock intake pipes, stock turbo and no racegas would indicate that I know a thing or two about tuning.

We WILL hit 118mph tonight... I got booted after one pass Friday with a 94.02 in the 1/8 and 117.66 in the 1/4. Shitty 1.78X launch. The next pass was planned to be the 11.6'er.

wow, most say keep it under 900C, I dont know if 1025C is good, I assume if your car is fine doing that then good for you.

You dont want to sound like a prick, but you kinda really sound like one by making that "quickest Evo" comment. You might know more then me, or have a faster Evo then me, but there are ways of expressing it with out being a "prick"
I actually relooked the log and it has run higher than that. Off throttle the a/f was rich which shows me some fuel was burning post cylinder still which is why the EGT's were that high. Evo's have a strong motor. Detonation and pre-ignition will kill the motor 90% of the time, not EGT.

I see a lot of threads go something like this: I need advice, blah, blah, blah. Then you get a response from someone with a proven record to know what they are talking about. Then the person responds, no "I think, blah, blah, blah." If you know what you are doing already, then why ask?

This is my frustration, I enjoy helping people.... If they listen to the sound advice. Unfortunately sometimes I am forced to demonstrate my credibility with a timeslip or dynosheet. The sole purpose is not to brag, but to say "Look here, I have a proof source to back up my advice as to why you should take the advice, it works". Hope you understand.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
so are you saying that having EGT over 900C is ok?

I understand ur frustration, however I never doubted your credability to begin with, I just thought EGT was a useful tool as alot of people have them, even you.

anyways , back on topic.
 

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Some other things to keep in mind when it comes to EGT's;
1. A lot of it depends on probe location, the closer it is to the collector/turbo, the higher temp.'s your going to see.

2. There is a relation between high EGT's and knock. "If you are running too lean for the boost and octane you have in the tank, you will get knock or pre-ignition. The knock sensor bolted to the engine block will pick up this "pinging" sound long before you can hear it inside the car. When under higher boost, there is almost always small amounts of knock. At these small amounts of knock the ECU will continue to advance timing normally. At mid knock levels the ECU will hold timing and if it gets too high or rises quickly, the ECU will begin to retard timing if not pull it all the way back to zero. You can hear the exhaust note change when the timing goes away. It will turn deeper , almost rumbly sounding. When the timing is retarded, the ignition process happens so late that the flame front shoots out the exhaust port when the exhaust valve opens and blows still expanding, really hot gas directly onto the EGT probe. So internally the pistons are barely warm, but the exhaust manifold and turbo get real hot. This is the reason we recommend not running EGTs higher than 900 degrees C. That is the point that timing retard is usually driving the EGTs up. Not that immediate damage is being done, it is just that you are no longer making additional power above that temperature and there is no benefit to running there."
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafc.htm
 

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Monitoring ign timing via OBDII logger is the most efficient and accurate way to acknowledge knock.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
so it looks like Im getting small knock from 5k-5.6k. since im gettin flat timing.

what does the weather have to do with knock/timing?

the weather dropped to 30s in nyc now compared to like 50 last week how much temp change will cause noticeable changes that you actually need to adjust the AFC???
 

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The colder the air, the denser the charge air is into the motor. At the same karman HZ reading, more oxygen is actually making it into the motor which will lean out the mixture. Now the AIT sensor is supposed to read the temp of the air and add some fuel for cold air, but you may still run on the lean side. The same principal will apply to the boost solenoid. The air is colder and denser so the stock boost may actually become higher than normal also. These two factors, raised boost and leaner fueling may contribute to your timing condition.

Personally, I would not pay attention to what is perceived as "held timing". You need to log rpm + timing. Only count timing when the rpms are climbing, not when you are shifting.
If it goes:
8-9-9-10-12-14-15-16-16-17-18-18-18-19 this is not considered knock. It depends what cells the load is referencing in the ECU for given timing and probably is normal.
If it goes:
8-9-9-10-12-14-15-16-15-14-13-17-17-18 then I would consider that knock.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I did a log today made very minor changes, My reading are sometimes inconsistent. Sometimes I would get a perfect pull with absolutely no timing pulled, and the next day I do a pull on the same setting I might get SLIGHT knock from the spots you see below.


RPM TIM O2 3rd gear Pull 05 evo MR w/catback/mbc
3242 6 .92
3347 4 .92
3449 3 .94
3609 2 .94
3734 5 .94
3898 5 .94
4035 6 .94
4171 6 .94
4308 6 .94
4437 7 .94
4574 7 .94_____ This is what Im talking about, Timing gets pulled by 1 while advancing
4726 6 .94 200 rpm, Im not sure If THIS is considered KNOCK???
4863 7 .94_____
4984 8 .94 when I added fuel back, it did more of 7-6-7-6 thing, so I took it
5101 8 .94 back out , Again sometimes its perfect sometimes is not
5246 8 .94 If I lefted like this would it be bad for my engine? is this considered
5390 8 .94 Knock??
5562 8 .94
5621 8 .96 any ideas???
5742 9 .94
5878 10 .94
5992 12 .94
6109 13 .94
6214 14 .94
6324 15 .94
6441 15 .96
6539 16 .96
6656 16 .96
6773 18 .96
6886 19 .94
6976 21 .96
7082 21 .96
7175 22 .96
7261 22 .96
 

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Is this at 22 psi by any chance? That looks exactly like what I was logging trying 22 psi, and I was mixing in 2 gallons of 100 oct. for approx 92 oct. Same exact timing too between 4000-5500 RPM's.
If the boost is that high, or higher, drop it 1 psi and lean it out to .92-.93v. See what happens. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
My MBC is set at 1.5 which i think is around 21 psi,maybe more closer to 22psi but in 3rd it goes up to like 1.4, only 1.5 in top gears. Tappers to around 1.2 by redline, (which sucks but still holds better than stock.)

what does the 1 psi have to do with that part of the RPM range anyway, I would like to keep my boost at the same level, it seems to be pretty stable even with the 30F weather these days.

another question, I know Im suppose to shoot for .92-.94, a while back when I tried to get .94 across the board, I had my SAFC II set highest at like -13% which is kind of high I think , after reading all the warning w/o wideband Im kind of reluctant of keeping it like that.

is .94 really safe I dont want to melt my pistons or something by leaning it out too much,plus the timing seems to be climing good up top why lean it out more???

also is higher timing better? like 22-23 by 7K or is that more dangerous?
 

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evo mr fu said:
My MBC is set at 1.5 which i think is around 21 psi,maybe more closer to 22psi but in 3rd it goes up to like 1.4, only 1.5 in top gears. Tappers to around 1.2 by redline, (which sucks but still holds better than stock.)
That's alot of taper. How far is your MBC from the wastegate?

evo mr fu said:
another question, I know Im suppose to shoot for .92-.94, a while back when I tried to get .94 across the board, I had my SAFC II set highest at like -13% which is kind of high I think , after reading all the warning w/o wideband Im kind of reluctant of keeping it like that.
is .94 really safe I dont want to melt my pistons or something by leaning it out too much,plus the timing seems to be climing good up top why lean it out more???
Your fine. Our knock sensors will pick up detonation and you'll see pulled timing before a WB tells you somethings wrong.

evo mr fu said:
also is higher timing better? like 22-23 by 7K or is that more dangerous?
Higher timing can give you more power, but it also increases the chances of knocking, so it's a trade off. I shoot for 20* at 7K, 22-23* is fine, and people who run 720's are getting 25-26*. Run what is best for your set up and what your car likes best.
 
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