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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just wondering if it would be better to install and tune an SAFCII or someother type of piggyback (TurboXS Utec...). Which would be ultimatley cheaper and more effective.
 

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cheaper=safc
more effective=what are your goals?

If you plan on making more than 350hp+ I would go with something a little more advanced than a safc. If you are looking to get around 350whp, a safc should suit you fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was looking at getting around the 350-425 mark for now. later (once car is paid off and i can afford it) was looking at maybe doing more. I would love to have a 550awhp evo ruling the track and streets with full suspension set up, standalone, and all the good stuff but i cant afford it now haha. What if any piggy back set ups would you recomend?
 

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turbosmartevo8 said:
I was looking at getting around the 350-425 mark for now. later (once car is paid off and i can afford it) was looking at maybe doing more. I would love to have a 550awhp evo ruling the track and streets with full suspension set up, standalone, and all the good stuff but i cant afford it now haha. What if any piggy back set ups would you recomend?
Then go with UTEC or Xede. I use just an S-AFC to run 12 flat in the hopes of breaking 11s, but we're talking no more than 350whp and that's only when on race gas with cranked boost and leaned out S-AFC settings. Since you want to go beyond this power level on the stock turbo, then you should probably get something more advanced.

First, though, you need to be honest with yourself about the power you plan on making on a daily basis. 425whp is no easy number to reach on pump gas, so be sure that you are definitely taking a mod path that will achieve such lofty goals. You can hit the 350-425 range on the stock turbo with alky injection, FMIC, IC piping, injectors and fuel pump, but that's also with some very good tuning. In this case, it would be your own self-tuning, I hope. If not, then just get a flash and call it a day...

If your more realistic goals are 325-350whp, which is good for 11.9-12.1 in the 1/4-mile with trap speed of 113-115, then the S-AFC is sufficient and very cheap...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If your more realistic goals are 325-350whp, which is good for 11.9-12.1 in the 1/4-mile with trap speed of 113-115, then the S-AFC is sufficient and very cheap...
Thanks,that is definatley more realistic then, i didnt realize the times you would run on that amount of power. What would be some mods (general or specific) that would help me reach that goal?? any suggestions or experiences?
 

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djmikeymike said:
you might want to look at ECU+.......it's cheaper then UTEC and Xede..... i would like to hear from more people that know about tuneing to see what they think about it...http://www.ecuplus.com/features.htm
I haven't personally used the ECU+, but I do know a few things:

1) It's one step above the S-AFC, since it can control timing, although it doesn't control ACTUAL timing, but rather additions or subtractions from base ECU timing. Hey, that's better than the S-AFC's indirect effect on timing.

2) It can be used quite well for making 400+whp, because I have a friend locally who just went [email protected] on his 03 with White Rabbit, 280s, Meth, and Ecu+ in 85 degree weather. He is not even using race gas...just 93oct + meth. I'm quite certain that when he gets some 60-degree weather, he will hit 119mph. This is the same guy who dyno'd at 360 on Buschur's new Mustang Dyno...
 

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Warrtalon said:
I haven't personally used the ECU+, but I do know a few things:

1) It's one step above the S-AFC, since it can control timing, although it doesn't control ACTUAL timing, but rather additions or subtractions from base ECU timing. Hey, that's better than the S-AFC's indirect effect on timing.

2) It can be used quite well for making 400+whp, because I have a friend locally who just went [email protected] on his 03 with White Rabbit, 280s, Meth, and Ecu+ in 85 degree weather. He is not even using race gas...just 93oct + meth. I'm quite certain that when he gets some 60-degree weather, he will hit 119mph. This is the same guy who dyno'd at 360 on Buschur's new Mustang Dyno...

I would like to know what differences are between ECU+, Xede, Utec.......so far i like what i hear about the ECU+, but that is comeing from a guy that doesn't know sh*t about tuning.

thanks for the insight Warrtalon
 

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djmikeymike said:
I would like to know what differences are between ECU+, Xede, Utec.......so far i like what i hear about the ECU+, but that is comeing from a guy that doesn't know sh*t about tuning.

thanks for the insight Warrtalon
I have no hands-on experience with anything besides the S-AFC, but from what I hear, the ECU+ is one step above the S-AFC, while being a step below the others you listed.

On the other hand, I believe the ECU+ has been recently upgraded/modified and is available in a much better form than when it was first released. My friend has the original version, so the new one is probably even more robust, although it costs much more as well.

If you want some more information on the new ECU+, check out MachV Motorsports, as Dan (owner) has done a lot of testing with it and only recently opened it up for sale at his shop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all the input.. from what i have heard from you guys and just general research...im probably just gonna go with the safc...thats not a bad route though is it? i can still get to about 350-375 whp with that and some other goodies right???
 

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turbosmartevo8 said:
Thanks for all the input.. from what i have heard from you guys and just general research...im probably just gonna go with the safc...thats not a bad route though is it? i can still get to about 350-375 whp with that and some other goodies right???
Yes, you can, but you're going to have to get the proper supporting equipment (wideband, egt, and logging device) as well as learn how to properly tune yourself. The S-AFC is not a toy and is not a joke, but it is very simple to configure. It's just not simple to understand all of the concepts that come into play when tuning the S-AFC for AFR and indirect timing...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ive got a logging device (on a palm unit) would the AEM wideband o2 controller work (the gauge one)?? and just an egt gauge?? Im not gonna mess with tuning..im going to take all the precautions before even attempting it...
 

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With a logger, EGT, wideband, and our guide, you will be tuning very well. The more you can monitor what's going on the better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Any suggestions on EGT gauges (brands or any good stuff??) also..what kindof wideband o2 (AEM??...a regular say auto meter A/F ratio gauge wouldnt work would it??) or any other suggestions. Im really trying to get everything figured out before i even buy the safc...i dont want to roast my engine by making it too lean..and i am very new to the "tune it yourself" game..but i want to know what to do so i can tune for different and future mods. Does the SAFCII come with the ability to have different presets (i.e. if i wanted a race gas preset, a 91 oct preset or settings for diff. boost levels???)
 

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I went with the plain old Autometer EGT. I'm not too crazy about the probe it came with (which is the most important part) so I'll be swaping it out for a TRE probe. I had a VDO on my Eclipse for a couple of years and liked it too. It came with a decent probe. It's all in the installation/probe location.
My $.02; get the gauge only that you like that uses a K-type thermocouple and a TRE probe;
http://www.teamrip.com/electronics/masc1thermocoupleinstall.htm

Your right about the A/F gauge. Use that money for a logger.

The S-AFCII has two maps that you can change on the fly.

I've never used wideband so I can't say.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
so would a wideband uego be nescesary? Its like $470 bucks!!! :eek: I already have a auto meter A/F ratio gauge..but im trying to sell it in the classifieds..! So i should be set with the logger, EGT gauge with good probe SAFCII ? I probably sound like such a noob...but i am..to engine tuning! :thumb:
 

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if you have no experience in tuning, get a wideband! it will make your life easier and save you some headaches. you can get an Innovate wideband for between $300-350. the $50-100 air/fuel gauges are not for tuning! most just flop around and dont give an accurate reading. a wideband will give you an actual afr just tune it to whatever number you like. some like to be overly safe and set it at 11:1, some go as high as 12.5:1 on our cars. you should keep it below or close to 12:1 in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
so basically a wideband uego is a really accurate AFR reading so that i can be sure im not too lean right? i feel so new to this whole thing!!
 

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yes, widebands are really accurate. in fact, widebands are the only accurate way gauge. like i said, you cannot rely on the simple gauges. ive never used the aem one you mentioned. ive got the innovate lm-1 and it works great. it is bigger than the aem, but significantly cheaper.
 

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IMO; a logger is the most important. You could be tuning for a desired AFR that you believe is safe, but meanwhile the ECU is holding/pulling timing because slight knock counts. :eek:
Again AFR, EGT's, and O2 values are just icing on the cake. They paint a wider picture for you to tell what's going on with the motor.
 
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