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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone , looking for some good help here.

My evo 8 is running around 450 awhp right now and im running on the BR 20-9 turbo(5 blade). I am severly unhappy with the results and performance i got from the turbo and am now looking for alot more power. Im just not sure to what turbo to go with.....so my questions are this....

What is the largest turbo for our STOCK size manifolds?

I know the stockk block can handle only around 600 to the wheel, what can i get away wihtout forged internals or a stroker kit, i will want to stay on the 2.0 stock block then just get forged internals.

I do alot of time attack, autox, and drag racing. So i would love alot of good power potencial but good spoolup , say full spool around 4 to 4300 rpm.

Right now im running around 11.4 or so conservitavly tuned at 11.2afr and am looking to see how much good power i can squeeze out so i can run around 11.FLAT or high 10s BUT without sacraficeing good spool up for my time attack and autox days.

I know everyone seems to love the 35Rs however i would like to go bigger than the 20-9 and not have to go fully changing all the exhaust components on the vehicle or haveing to customize a whole hell of alot.

Please guys and gals....let me know your input no matter how slight it may be.


Thanks in advance.
Jey
 

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so you want to autox on a drag turbo without a stroker.

mm hmm

if you want to have full spool (i assume max boost) around 4300, you really limit yourself in the big turbo without stroker category. with those numbers you're looking at a GT30R pretty much at the max. of course people have goten well over 500whp with the 30 so i wouldnt say its a "small" turbo
 

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Hey thanks for the help and info Ram. I was looking at AMS' site and was reading more info onteh gt3076 . AMS says spool is between 3200-3800 and puts out abuot 475-525 whp. Now is this actually the max of that turbo on any variation of motor before it cant handle anything? Im assumeing it makes more power at higher boost? Such as im running 30 psi on this 20-9 BR turbo and im around 465-475 whp now. I would assume this turbo being bigger would gian me a good about more of power. Am i wrong?WTF

Also can the gt3076 (ball bearing?) fit on the stock size manifold?

Thanks so much for the input guys, the more the better so please keep posting for me.:thumb:

Does anyone here have this GT3076 turbo on here car and have anuy input?

Thanks,
Jey Morris
 

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the hp numbers sound good, the 525whp, (depending on mods) would be in the high 20's psi somewhere.

as for the spool, i think it was determined that AMS quotes low spool times. as those are really low numbers. with a GT28, i spool 3800-4200rpm depending on how you define it (and how well you can watch the tach and boost gauge). i would almost be tempted to say those numbers are on a stroked motor.

however you should talk to "the closer" here as he is running a 30R and can tell you everything you would ever want to know about that turbo.

i honestly dont think the 30R can fit ont he stock manifold. when it was installed on the closer's car, it seemed like it barely fits between the block and the radiator. IIRC, its the 35R housing with a 30R wheel. his turbo was huge compared to mine, and mine greatly overshadowed the stocker - if that means anything. however, i would reccommend a tubular manifold for a turbo such as this, because you're going to want all the increase in exhaust velocity you can get to spool the turbo. if you're worried about stock looking, thats honestly too bad, you cant reasonably have 500+whp and look or sound stock. thats just how it works

but definately talk to the closer
 

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WOW!!!! youre putting down 465-475whp with a 20g???? are you sure about that?? my turbo is significantly bigger in every aspect that your 20g is and im only putting down 441whp. im positive that you are mistaken...maybe the 4s should be 3s. im really confused. if thats what you are putting down...what more do you want?? you said you want to sacrifice no more in regards to spool time and have more power on the stock 2 liter block right?? well, theres no such thing bro. just like matt said, youre pretty much balls against the wall unless you get a stroker kit or 2.4L! im still trippin trying to figure out how the hell you put down that much power on a 20g. you know all that is, is a little bigger wheel and lighter internals in a stock big 16g housing right?? matt's gt28 should put your 20g to shame as far as numbers and spool are concerned. matt's turbo should spool around 3800 to 4000, just like he said depending on who's looking at it. my turbo starts spooling really hard at 3800 and hits full boost by 4300rpm! anything below 3500 my car feels like a base lancer...but beleive me when i tell you...once that spool hits, its over. i do love my turbo, dont get me wrong. if you look at other cars with more advanced engine management systems that i have with the same turbo, my numbers are way higher than theirs. which is why i feel like my turbo, in all its glory, has been shot down by a little 20g-9 turbo....maybe i should call buschur?? damn...hey matt...wanna make the switch with me?? hahah

T
 

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No, he's not really putting down that much power. If he were, then there would be no reason to be disappointed. What more could you expect from a stock turbo with new wheel? Anyone making 450whp on a 20g-9 on a daily basis (requires race gas or alky to do this) should be extremely happy - instantaneous spool with huge power that doesn't die off at high rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok sorry let me try to air this out a little bit.
And first let me say thanks to the ones who are inputting info about this.

I am running 380whp on race gas 27psi
368 on pump gas24psi
...MD Dyno lets go by these #s perhaps the tuner or dyno owner did not give me the correct horsepower. And i oppologize for the misinformation if that is true i believe i used corrected value of 20% i believe.

TURBO- the reason for this whole debate on going to a bigger turbo is that the case at point is i dont like the 20-9// for the cost it was a waste in my opinion (sorry Warrtalon) gotta be honest. It spools at full spool at 4-4300 rpm. And now after having the turbo for only a month it has shitted out. So i now have to find a remedy. IE better turbo. I am Actually contimplateing just going back to stock however i would loose so much power but gain an assload of torque. I should have just spent the extra money to go a bit bigger in my opinion in the first place.

So going by this info what do you guys say?

And thanks for all the info and help.

Jey Morris
 

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MOMOJeyEvlEvo said:
Ok sorry let me try to air this out a little bit.
And first let me say thanks to the ones who are inputting info about this.

I am running 380whp on race gas 27psi
368 on pump gas24psi
...MD Dyno lets go by these #s perhaps the tuner or dyno owner did not give me the correct horsepower. And i oppologize for the misinformation if that is true i believe i used corrected value of 20% i believe.

TURBO- the reason for this whole debate on going to a bigger turbo is that the case at point is i dont like the 20-9// for the cost it was a waste in my opinion (sorry Warrtalon) gotta be honest. It spools at full spool at 4-4300 rpm. And now after having the turbo for only a month it has shitted out. So i now have to find a remedy. IE better turbo. I am Actually contimplateing just going back to stock however i would loose so much power but gain an assload of torque. I should have just spent the extra money to go a bit bigger in my opinion in the first place.

So going by this info what do you guys say?

And thanks for all the info and help.

Jey Morris

WOW...ok those numbers look soooooooo much better thank you. no worries though, its been corrected now. anyhow...yes, i would definately agree with you about the turbo being a waste of money in that if you add just a little more money on top of that...you've got yourself a much bigger turbo that's capable of soooo much more than stock-like performance. thats where the 3076r comes in. you will not regret it, trust me. its gonna spool right around the same as what you've quoted (which is pretty laggy from my understanding...arent 20gs supposed to spool close to 3500?) around 4300. im at 441whp on 91 octane piss pump gas. on race gas i got as high as 523whp. we tuned it for the area under the curve more than peak numbers...which im very happy with!! and i think most ppl would be too. my next move is a stroker kit...obviously. i cant help myself...power is addicting. after feeling what 500whp feels like...ive stopped putting 91 octane in my car...i love it. anyhow...if you have any specific questions, let me know and id be more than happy to oblige.

T
 

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No, 4000-4200rpm is not slow spool. We only spool the stocker at 3800rpm or so. I'm basing this off dyno plots, not watching the tach while driving. My stocker on alky with stock cams hit full boost/peak torque (363wtq) at 3800rpm. A 20g putting out over 400whp on a Dynojet hitting full boost at 4000-4200 is very nice. A GT30 will hit full boost closer to 5000rpm on the Evo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey guys just to show you what exactly this 20-9 looked like BEFORE it was being retarded i will scan and post my dyno sheet tomorrow.

Please correct me if im wrong but . I got 385 or whatever on the MUSTANG DYNO on the DYNOJET shouldnt i yeild 20-25%more in the #s? Thats what my tuner told me . But please let me know if im wrong i dont want to go around telling people i have 400 awhp when i only have 300 you know? lol Thanks guys.

Jey Morris
 

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No, 20-25% is a HUGE correction. That's way too much. Also, differences like that are not linear as power increases. Don't ever claim power other than what you actually get. Don't try to make estimations for other dynos. Also, your trap speed tells the true tale. 450whp on a Dynojet would mean 123-124mph traps, and you weren't close to that.
 

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Warrtalon said:
No, 4000-4200rpm is not slow spool. We only spool the stocker at 3800rpm or so. I'm basing this off dyno plots, not watching the tach while driving. My stocker on alky with stock cams hit full boost/peak torque (363wtq) at 3800rpm. A 20g putting out over 400whp on a Dynojet hitting full boost at 4000-4200 is very nice. A GT30 will hit full boost closer to 5000rpm on the Evo.
on the contrary...i do indeed hit full boost at 4300rpms...you can even ride with me and watch it yourself. ive had numerous ppl confirm this. to be exact it was a hair over 4300 so like 4350 or 4360 from what i can guess. NOW...torque peak is a different story...i hit torque peak in the 5000s. but whoever told you a 30R spools at 5000rpm is dead wrong. a buddy of mine has a 30r and his hits FULL BOOST at 3800rpms...i saw it with my own eyes. enough said.

T
 

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It's not a matter of who told me what. I'm referring ONLY to dynographs. When I refer to full spool, I am referring to the peak torque spot on the dynograph in 3rd gear. It doesn't matter what the tach says when you're driving or when someone is riding in the passenger seat. If I went and put my car in 6th gear, then hammered it, I could say I hit full boost at 3000rpm, but that's not the proper reference point. On my dynograph, I hit peak torque, which is the indication of full boost, at 3800rpm at sea level. The peak torque/full boost matching is not 100% exact, but without a MAP sensor being logged against RPM, it's difficult to prove the ACTUAL full boost point.

No 30r hits peak torque at 3800rpm in 3rd gear on an Evo even with a stroker.

Unfortunately, people refer to "full boost" in many different ways with different reference points. I've now defined mine, so you know what I mean.
 

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its never been more clear!!! thanx for clearing that up wartalon! thats why i mentioned it at the end of my post about torque peak on the dyno. in that case...we are in agreement. BUT i think what the author of this thread is referring to IS the rpm at which the turbo hits full spool or peak boost. is my choice of words better this time?? yeah...i think he's more concerned with that rather than torque peak...you know what i mean?? maybe he can chime in

T
 

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Well, w hat I'm saying is that ACTUAL full boost is the point at which we hit peak torque, at least on the Evo. We get a big boost spike, which is where we hit peak torque - they are one in the same. However, on some turbos, there is an initial torque climb, then leveling with a slight rise, which causes peak torque to be much later, but I'm talking about the initial point at which the boost maxes per the dynograph. Here's some examples:

26psi at sea level and near 6000' in Denver with the stock turbo. You can see I hit full boost in the 3700-3800 range at low altitude and closer to 4000 at higher altitude. I don't hit peak torque until I hit full boost.

 

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I quickly browsed the engine mods you have on the mmevo8's webpage and one thing jumps out at me that is not listed, not sure if it was a mistake or not. I see injectors, FPR and fuel rail, but I don't see a fuel pump :nono: . Sure hope you do and just don't have it listed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok guys,
First, yes Streetz thanks for that , yes i do have it i just dont have it listed. But thank you i will add that to the list. There are a few other mods that arent on that list as well that are New or lol "Top Secret" lmao JK.

Alright guys sorry i couldnt find it but this is the dyno results on pump gas @ 24 PSI with the 20-9(.5)

And yes i was talking when full spool is reached, not necissarly (sp?) highest torque. cause we all know about the spikage. Ok guys well here is the dyno sheet. Lets talk about this.

Jey Morris
 

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IF that particular mustang dyno is set up exactly like Dave Buschurs Mustang dyno (unlikely since he has one of the lowest reading Mustang dyno's in the country) that would be aprox. equivelent to 425 on an average dynojet.

The reason Warrtalon says you can't do conversions like this is because of all of the guesses and estimates in the above paragraph. A mustang dyno can be manipulated to read anywhere from way low like it comes from the factory up to reading identical or higher than a dynojet all based on how it is calibrated. Also, not all Dynojet dyno's read the same either. The comparison is futile.

The only way to really know anything is to use the same dyno for back to back comparisons. My car on Dave Buschurs Mustang dyno made 210 wheel HP when bone stock, it is now making 452 HP on that very same dyno.

Now since I know what my car is rated for stock, and what it made on Dave's dyno I can produce a correction factor to calculate flywheel HP. {skip calcs to avoid more typing) Those calculations put me at ABOUT615 crank HP and I should make around 520 on an average dynojet.

Since we don't know what an EVO baselines at on the dyno you used, we can't really estimate your crank HP or what it would be equivelent to on a dynojet.

Sorry,

Keith

PS: Your best bet is to find identical setups with the only variation being the turbocharger used and tested on the same exact dyno. Even then tuning variations will make a big difference.
 
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