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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So can someone please advise as to when our stock intercoolers would need replacing? I have a buddy of mine as well that is looking into a new front mount but he's looking to push maybe 350 whp max. I'm sure even at this horse power level the stock intercooler is fine.
 

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Stock FMIC is perfectly-mated to the stock turbo, so for the price, there isn't much to gain from upgrading the FMIC unless you fit into one of these categories:

1) You have an upgraded turbo
2) You run alky injection or race gas daily with the boost cranked abot 25psi 24/7
3) You live in a very hot area like Arizona where temps are 100+ quite often
4) You road race the car frequently and need to combat heatsoak from 20+ mins of constant boosting

You say your friend is looking to push 350whp, but I'd actually need to see/know his mods to make a determination. Many people claim or hope to make a certain power level, but they usually don't. Generally, when the fastest and cheapest way to 350whp on an Evo does not include purchasing an FMIC.
 

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It really depends on how hard you push it. I've gotten the stocker heated up pretty good after three pulls. There was little cool down time in between but it's up to the driver.
If your in a warm climate I believe it should be on the list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Warrtalon said:
Stock FMIC is perfectly-mated to the stock turbo, so for the price, there isn't much to gain from upgrading the FMIC unless you fit into one of these categories:

1) You have an upgraded turbo
2) You run alky injection or race gas daily with the boost cranked abot 25psi 24/7
3) You live in a very hot area like Arizona where temps are 100+ quite often
4) You road race the car frequently and need to combat heatsoak from 20+ mins of constant boosting

You say your friend is looking to push 350whp, but I'd actually need to see/know his mods to make a determination. Many people claim or hope to make a certain power level, but they usually don't. Generally, when the fastest and cheapest way to 350whp on an Evo does not include purchasing an FMIC.
Currently he's looking to run:

hks 280's
buschur turbo back exhaust
upper and lower intercooler pipe
injectors
fuel pump
air filter
re-flash

he lives out in the Palm springs area so tempeture's above 100 are like it snowing in the rocky mountains...lol
 

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If its palm springs than an ic wouldnt be a bad upgrade just to try and combat heat soak. But really no matter what you do in palm springs your kinda sol.
 

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Tell him to forget the UICP and injectors, and instead to get a ported stock manifold + Ebay SS o2 housing plus money left over to get the FMIC if he feels the need to do so in that hot area. He will make a LOT more power with alky injection than he will by adding an FMIC, and an alky kit costs less than most FMICs, so keep that in mind...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
lol...i agree. Me and a few of my friends dont see much track time unless we hit a local track over in fontana. But i must admit. it is pretty hot out here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Warrtalon said:
Tell him to forget the UICP and injectors, and instead to get a ported stock manifold + Ebay SS o2 housing plus money left over to get the FMIC if he feels the need to do so in that hot area. He will make a LOT more power with alky injection than he will by adding an FMIC, and an alky kit costs less than most FMICs, so keep that in mind...


You beat me to the response!

well he already has the UICP and injectors. only thing he really needs is the cams. One of my buddies is running the intercooler chiller. We've discussed this and it seems to be working great for him overall. That really helps him eliminate the need of a front mount at 28 psi. I'll talk to him about the alky injection and see if he's up to it. Yeah it would definetely be a better investment than a fmic if you consider how much it would help you on the track. :thumb:
 

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280s on a stock turbo, and a generally stockish evo = waste of money.

looking at what mods you've got up there get staggered 264/272s or straight 272s. 280s arent well suited for the stock turbo. you can do whatever you want, the 280s will fit, and the car will still run, but you wouldnt really be taking advantage of the 280s. also you have to upgrade your valve springs for 280s if im thinking correctly.
 

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Matts right, with a stock turbo the 280s dont tend to make more power than the 272s they just shift the powerband higher, and for a stock turbo thats not good. You are forgetting something about alky injection, you need to remember to refill it and check up on its operation. A fmic will provide some relief, and doesnt need constant surveilance, it just works. It would be a better choice if its a daily driver. And seeing that you, as do I, live in the land of 91 octane, bigger injectors is not a bad idea. I think those that are blessed with 93/94 sometimes forget that.
 

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Some facts that I have noticed about the stock intercooler.

Stocker is light weight
Stocker flows very well
Stocker is pretty darn efficient
Stocker is small so there isn't any increased lag

I'm running my stock intercooler with a td06h-20g turbo making ~430whp and I have no real plans to upgrade anytime soon, I don't think for the money it would be worth it right now
 

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4tun8, what octane do you have in your car? I think youve got 93/94 where your at. It makes a large difference when it comes to tuning. I would like to see the stock core with a 20g put out numbers near that on 91. Now with a bigger core you could get larger numbers due to lower intake temps allowing more boost on 91 and that could get the numbers hear closer. The weight of the stock core is very light, a def plus. But as far as lag goes, its almost unnoticeable with a bigger ic. While the stock core works you would still probably see bigger numbers with a larger core, especially when you have a larger turbo.
 

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I have installed ic's into evos and have had drives both before and after and have not noticed some huge lag increase as your talking about, as I already stated. Maybe its a problem with some of the manufacturers poor endtank designs, that while cost effective, dont help flow. Sheet metal endtanks = bad. I can tell you the greddy, xs engineering, and arc work wonderfully with no huge lag increase, personal experience to relate. These arent massive ic upgrades designed to be menacing looking, but to work for a street car, perhaps incorrect sizing or cheap engineering has been a problem youve encountered. Or it could be that I dont feel 100 rpm, or so, increase in lag is a huge problem because its benefits out weigh the downsides. Some may be hugely offended by it and those could be the stories you hear. Though I relate my experiences to california, here its 91 all the time. We are constantly battling on the edge of detonation when trying to make power, so perhaps an ic is a bigger power gain to us which gives it bigger gains to someone on 91.
 

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I never said huge; I said noticeable. We're talking a few hundred rpm verified by before/after dyno and/or detailed logging equipment, but in most cases it is perceived by the owner's butt dyno. No, we're not talking about poor design or cheap engineering. We're talking about proven and tested FMICs used all throughout the Evo community, and that does not include Greddy, XS Engineering, nor ARC.
 

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So the ic you are talking about would be... Buschur? I havent personally seen the buschur ic's tested. I can give you info on the ones Ive seen which have been the ones mentioned in my previous posts. Cast end tanks offer increases in flow, sheet metal doesnt. Also it is dependent on bar and plater or tube and fin design. Tube and fin design does not slow flow as much nor does cast end tanks. The three I have mentioned are all tube and fin with cast cores. And all work well on stock turbos with 91 octane to offer power gains with tuning and more boost. I think one would help out someone in palm springs where he daily sees 100+ degree whether and has to use 91 octane gas. I am not using data logging equipment nor a dyno. I do see before and afters with them on dynos, and I do see gains. The tuners in the area recommend them to keep knock on 91 at bay so as to increase boost for more power, and to this I have seen verified on the dyno. The info I go on for increase in lag is purely from watching the boost gauge after the install which ends up being a 100 rpm or so, which is fine in my book as well as those looking to maximize there power. Calling that increses in lag is true, but to make 100rpm seem like the end of the world is a little harsh.
 

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In last month's issue of Turbo magazine, there was a pretty good article mentioning intercooler efficiency. I'm not debating "yea" or "nay" as to rather or not they do or do not make more power. Without question, giving an upgraded intercooler's cooling efficiency, it does serve as a "catalyst" for the future possibility of increasing power.

As far as having to check your meth/alky kit, the kit that I have came with a low-indicator light making for the element of surprise to be done away with.

You do not have to change your springs and retainers with the HKS 280 cams. And as far as them making "subpar" power, Dynoflash has done testing comparing them on stock-ish EVO's that have turned out nice power gains.
 

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hey wise guy ime from palm springs also and I am evils friend, I have heard of a yellow evo and recently talked to some guy that I saw at move motorsports, that said he was the owner of a fast yellow evo that it should be a low 11 high 10 sec. car, and that his car is guted. I dont know him by name but he was a white guy.
 
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